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Billy Wagner on using long toss to gain velocity. Courtesy of
@PitchingNinja.
Check out some of my thoughts on the pros and cons of long toss below.
@PitchingNinja.
Check out some of my thoughts on the pros and cons of long toss below.
Long toss is undoubtedly a huge tool for velocity gain for a lot of pitchers, but that doesn't mean it's for everyone.
Here are some of the pros/cons:
Here are some of the pros/cons:
Pro #1: Immediate feedback
You can see the flight, spin and distance of each throw. This reinforces efficiency and helps w/ throw-to-throw adjustments. Note: you don't get this w/ indoor long toss into a net, so plan accordingly.
You can see the flight, spin and distance of each throw. This reinforces efficiency and helps w/ throw-to-throw adjustments. Note: you don't get this w/ indoor long toss into a net, so plan accordingly.
Pro #2: Emphasis on loose arm action during extension phase.
This cue helps ensure you get everything out of the lower half as you ramp intensity before bringing in the arm. Take the arm for a walk and feel the patterns supply the energy as you go out.
This cue helps ensure you get everything out of the lower half as you ramp intensity before bringing in the arm. Take the arm for a walk and feel the patterns supply the energy as you go out.
Pro #3: Reinforces high slot, high spin efficiency, high spin rate and good direction.
These factors tend to increase carry + accuracy, and these throws are "selected for" with long toss. This can be a pro for a 3/4 guy looking to improve spin efficiency, direction + spin rate.
These factors tend to increase carry + accuracy, and these throws are "selected for" with long toss. This can be a pro for a 3/4 guy looking to improve spin efficiency, direction + spin rate.
Pro #4: Pulldowns are a built in mound-transfer mechanism.
Done properly, long toss accounts for some of mound transfer issue by building in downhill or "compression" throws on the way in. This maximizes the chance an athlete can convert extension throws downhill.
Done properly, long toss accounts for some of mound transfer issue by building in downhill or "compression" throws on the way in. This maximizes the chance an athlete can convert extension throws downhill.
Now let's talk about some of the cons.
Con #1: Not appropriate for all pitcher profiles
A sidearm, sinker or arm-side run guy has to be careful not to lose what makes him successful. Training long distance, high carry throws runs counter to what they want their fastball to do.
Con #1: Not appropriate for all pitcher profiles
A sidearm, sinker or arm-side run guy has to be careful not to lose what makes him successful. Training long distance, high carry throws runs counter to what they want their fastball to do.
Con #2: Feeding mechanical flaws - uphill/low elbow
For pitchers who are dealing with either of these flaws and struggle to get downhill at landing, long toss can reinforce a low elbow / back shoulder, limiting efficiency.
For pitchers who are dealing with either of these flaws and struggle to get downhill at landing, long toss can reinforce a low elbow / back shoulder, limiting efficiency.
Con #3: Transferability issues
Some pitchers can throw 400 feet from a crow hop, but struggle to hit 89 on the mound. It doesn't always transfer as well as you'd like. You've got to go hunting to find the breakdown (crow hop, pulldowns, mound mechanics, etc.)
Some pitchers can throw 400 feet from a crow hop, but struggle to hit 89 on the mound. It doesn't always transfer as well as you'd like. You've got to go hunting to find the breakdown (crow hop, pulldowns, mound mechanics, etc.)
Con #3 continued
One thing that might help is long tossing out of your delivery versus using a crow hop. Sure you might not get out quite as far, but the transfer tends to shoot through the roof a lot of the time. I never long tossed from a crow hop personally.
One thing that might help is long tossing out of your delivery versus using a crow hop. Sure you might not get out quite as far, but the transfer tends to shoot through the roof a lot of the time. I never long tossed from a crow hop personally.
So what's the solution? Are you more confused than when you started?
We divide guys into buckets:
1. Max long toss
2. Max long toss (no arc)
3. Under 120 feet
Sinker ball, sidearm, and uphill/low elbow guys tend to go in buckets 2 or 3. Athlete preference also plays a role.
We divide guys into buckets:
1. Max long toss
2. Max long toss (no arc)
3. Under 120 feet
Sinker ball, sidearm, and uphill/low elbow guys tend to go in buckets 2 or 3. Athlete preference also plays a role.
These are some of the many reasons you can't just tell athletes to go long toss 300 feet and they'll throw 90.
It doesn't work that way, and that's not the best way for everyone.
There are shades of grey with everything and we as coaches need to be able to see through them.
It doesn't work that way, and that's not the best way for everyone.
There are shades of grey with everything and we as coaches need to be able to see through them.
