Yeah see this is the reason why most constitutions give out "liberty" not "freedom"

In civil society, the former often takes precedent over the more inherent latter as pure, unhindered freedom can impinge on the freedom of another. https://twitter.com/caitoz/status/1361112187113119746

Pure freedom is utopian and imo cannot exist in civil society

Governments, often being the ones to set what libertines are allowed in civil society, can also violate both the civil liberty and the inherent freedoms of the people. This can be predicted somewhat by what certain political candidates say they want to apply in policy

But ultimately they can choose to go back on it, which is why we can never fully blame voters for the excesses of the government. But that doesn't absolve voters completely still, especially when they vote while ignoring what the candidates propose they will do ie low info voters

Ultimately, the burden of knowing gets split between what info politicians give out, what information the voters choose to go and get regardless of source, and what information the voters and politicians both choose to agree with or disregard

There's a lot in that thread I agree and disagree with
The allusion to cult manipulation and abuser manipulation is interesting. In truth, yeah, the abused have a door out, but there is something that stops them, a large part of it is because of manipulation working on them.

It's an interesting thread regardless. I haven't really thought of liberty vs freedom after I dropped political science in my final year of university:)