It’s almost time for the hearing.

I don’t typically livetweet Zoom hearings but I am going to try for those unable to join. https://twitter.com/itsa_talia/status/1358883010049900544

The agenda for the meeting. Pretty straightforward.

Calendar says the hearing should be in "virtual room 2" so this link should work to get you there: https://council.nyc.gov/livestream/#virtual-room-2

https://twitter.com/KeithPowersNYC/status/1359150346921197576?s=20

Cabrera is reading out the concept behind the law and its basic functionality. Powers says he intro'd the bill a few months ago "to protect the freedom of the press." Says credentials should be easy to get and unbiased.

Powers uses "Fair, equitable, and accessible" as a cute little tag for the bill. Cabrera earlier said press would have to get "background checks" but wasn't clear about the extent of that –– full criminal check, or just proving you've been pubbed?

A fun Brady bunch! NYPD reps and Mayoral rep taking the oath to be truthful ahead of their testimony.

Lisa Bland from the NYPD's executive counsel speaking. Seems her effort in advocating for the NYPD to control press creds is centered on the premise that the NYPD do a lot of different jobs and work 24/7.

Which just makes them sound overloaded.

Bland says from 2015 NYPD has issued "well over 5,000" press creds, says there've been no revocations of press creds. Doesn't mention # of press who got rejected or how many press there are in NYC to reflect how many they're handing out in relation to population.

Bland closes on how the NYPD would cooperate with whatever decision happens but there needs to be continued discussions about which agency would take over.

They're now discussing the 5 cases in the past 5 years where press passes were suspended, not revoked (which is how NYPD gets to claim 0 revocations as if synonymous with no problems).

Mayor's office rep says he hasn't heard of "big impediments" about getting a press badge literally in response to and right after Powers details impediments like not having enough clips to hit the requirement or physically having to go to 1PP.

"The process is very seamless" says Bland, too. Powers pushes back and reiterates about the qualification criteria. NYPD finally admits that you do have to print out the form and bring it to 1PP in person, where you get photographed for the cred.

(Bland made it seem like a breeze where you just fill out the form online and little cartoon birds emerge to braid your hair and dress you in the morning)

Press has to have 6 clips within 24-month time – articles, photos, etc – says if you have 6 stories then you're getting a card no matter what the stories are. Question is what counts as a story. Does a self-written blog post count?

Powers asks what to do w/new folks.

It's been mentioned that press credentials – which for some reason expire at the same time – were set to expire Jan. 15th. Now all due to expire on April 15th. Not clear why they all expire simultaneously, just creates a backlog. Unless there's so few out there it doesn't matter?

Moving on to council questions.

Rodriguez asking about press having license plates that mark them as press so you can park where you need to without ticketing while covering an event.

Technically a press car is exempt from normal parking rules (ie alternate parking) if they're parked nearby an event, but that really only applies to press VANS that are visibly marked as belonging to a major outlet as opposed to individual vehicles.

Someone just joined and is wearing a mask but in the most incorrect way.

Councilmember Yeger asking why press passes are needed in the first place. Why can't people just go anywhere and claim to be press?

Much larger conversation to be had about that, esp. w/r/t deterring people claiming press while engaging in unlawful activity.

Mask boi appeared to do some sign language (there are no signers on this call, btw) and then held up a U.S. appellate court lawsuit. Thrilled for them to get unmuted and find out what kind of heat they're trying to bring to this hearing.

Question about why any credentials at all gets pushed out of sight: Focus is on the issuance of credentials, not the greater philosophy about "the 4th branch of government."

NYPD finally coughs up some numbers. 5 suspensions in 5 years. 3,000 credentials issued in past 3 years. If they all expire on the same day at 30 being processed daily (as NYPD mentioned earlier), it would take up to 100 days to get re-credentialed.

Yeger says there's no evidence that NYPD aren't amenable to press and are amenable in allowing them to "push the envelope" to get as close as possible to "get the shot."

Big "I haven't seen that footage" energy.

It seems the press credential conversation is attempting to center on status quo press (press conferences and police lines) but that the law @KeithPowersNYC is pushing for has come to fore amid documenting protests where press have been arrested, assaulted, kettled, hassled.

Yeger keeps saying press credentials mean people can "go wherever they feel like" which isn't... true? Saying the hearing/law seems to be creating a problem where there isn't one. Previously said NYPD is super accommodating to press. Feels like he's carrying water for them.

Powers says suspensions aren't a good metric to determine whether the system works, but rather those who've been unable to get the credential at all. Provided 3 anecdotes from reporters/photojournos who haven't been able to get credentials at all.

Unclear if @KeithPowersNYC has spoken on the conflict of interest about NYPD being the arbiter of who is press in the face of press who cover police brutality.

Mask boi holds up SCOTUS case from 1978 finding that "the Constitution provides the press with no greater right of access to information than that possessed by the public at large." Conflicts with Yeger's claim that press can go wherever they want.

NYPD claiming press get to go "beyond the police line" at crime scenes, which isn't actually the standard? Press can enter a crime scene at the discretion of the police, they don't just get to roam around dead bodies or whatever lol

Can someone message Towaki one on one and tell him to put his mask over his nose

It is so jarringly funny hearing people paint press as untouchable elites who get to do whatever they want when a massive majority of us are freelance or stringers. The credentialing process isn't a hurdle for major networks. The issue is for individuals doing the work w/o them.

Cabrera calls Yeger "very eager today!" because he keeps putting his zoom hand up to speak, I guess. Yeger so far has been the loudest opposition to the entire point of this, from asking why press credentials even exist to complaining that this hearing is about a non-problem.

They paused the hearing to fix an issue with the stream (and hopefully to tell Mask Boi to put his mask over his nose).

@KeithPowersNYC's law intro has so far elevated concerns about accessibility to credentials. Haven't gotten into the weeds about NYPD bias or Yeger's claims.

No, this is between NYPD's counsel, city councilmembers, and the Mayor's office. No one speaking on behalf of the press. Public comment was pre-determined at random ahead of the meeting and will likely see press testimony (prestimony?) there. https://twitter.com/colin_devries/status/1359170674460393475?s=20

(Who would you even pick to speak on behalf of the press?)

Oh the meeting is back and it sounds like Jane Tillman Irving is speaking on behalf of the press? Says NYPD is best to handle credentials, says background checks are "disturbing."

"It should remain with the NYPD, with modifications," Irving says.

Cabrera asks for point of clarification about background checks, I think? Maybe I misheard.

Powers now hitting on the NYPD bias!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

. @KeithPowersNYC asks if the focus of press (the NYPD) "especially over the past year" is the best agency to determine who gets a badge.

Irving says "thus far, there isn't that much of a conflict." Norman Siegel just shook his head.

Irving: "I do think that if the issue is going behind police lines, the best judges of that are the police."

Powers counterpoint: "They may be the wrong one for the reason I'm stating. They're in the middle of a protest, they're a major piece of the coverage..."

Wonder what Irving will say about the credentialing issue if @KeithPowersNYC mentions a member of press was arrested while covering a protest and @NYPDnews said they weren't press because they weren't NYPD-credentialed.

Powers floats an (incomplete) comparative where health department issues grades to restaurants but doesn't operate within restaurants; they're an outside party that doesn't have incentive in who gets what kind of grades.

Norman Siegel nodded his head when Powers hit on the bias, btw. This is a Norman Siegel head movement thread now.

Yeger to Irving: "You see it as okay and not objectionable, but something that's been bandied about is the agency being covered.... The mayor is probably the most covered individual in the city of New York." You can guess where he's going with this.

This is my first intro to Yeger but man is that guy a master at contrarianism.

Ahhh, he did it. Yeger has an issue now with the mayor's office being the one to issue press credentials on the basis that if the NYPD is biased because they're heavily covered then the mayor's office is too.

Cabrera again pushing back against people repeating a claim that he's calling for background checks. Clarifies that he doesn't know if those are happening. Yeger says he thinks the confusion is because there's language in the draft bill about background checks.

It sounds like the distinction is "background check" as full criminal check versus checking a professional background aka "request for past clips"?

Councilmember Levin asking Irving now "Have you or any of your members (NY Press Club) had experiences with NYPD restricting access to members of the press," provides protests as example for that circumstance.

Irving wormily admits that she knows of instances of that.

Mask boi put his mask over his nose!!!

Irving really did not want to admit that members of the press have experienced pushback from police that prevented them from doing their jobs. I wonder if anyone in this hearing has covered protests this past year?

Levin notes it's "problematic" that the NYPD wouldn't recognize credentials provided by an outside agency.

Levin asks if Irving knows of any press arrested. Irving says she doesn't know of any in New York.

Hello!!!!

Colin DeVries scrolling on his phone numerous articles about press being arrested and assaulted in NYC.

Attny Mickey Osterreicher provides a pre-written statement from photographers opposing the law while also calling for improvement of procedure.

Komatsu showing some legal docs, including what looks like a lawsuit by him against the city of New York.

Osterreicher says they're worried because "you might as well have a note from your mother" if you don't have an NYPD credential because it's not honored.

Councilmember Adams uplifting concern about how the protests of last year with a flood of press covering the protests who Adams says were "treated horribly" by the NYPD, with concern about prejudice from NYPD.

Irving doesn't expect to see the same animus against press as what she saw in past administrations.

Osterreicher calls back to those Before Times as well, says they should wait and see what the rules would look like before backing the law.

Seems there's agreement that the rules need to be reworked but there's not agreement on the concept that the NYPD has an inherent bias in issuing press credentials to press who cover the NYPD.

Norman Siegel's time starting now!!!!

Oh no Norman Siegel is frozen. Oh no Norman is muted!!!!

Siegel coming out swinging. "The history of the NYPD and how it exercises authority over press credentials has been unsatisfactory." Says it needs to be moved to another agency. "Periodically I've received reports that NYPD has threatened to pull credentials of pjs/js..."

"However, we need to be careful about who takes over the job." Needs to know why DCAS was chosen, says need for closely monitor procedure and criteria for issuance as well as suspension/revocation.

Says standard about revoking press cred should be lawful *conviction* not *arrest*.

Also asks who qualifies as a journalist.

"The key is – there's a conflict of interest." They decide who gets to be press and "are the judge and jury" too.

Cabrera asks Siegel's opinion on transferring. Siegel says transfer out of NYPD but not into Mayor's Office, suggests consumer affairs.

"The decisionmaker with regard to standards and rules and regulations, who determines whether press meets the criteria, whether a license should be suspended or revoked –– that should be an independent system," says Siegel.

"When you talk about conflict of interest, it's the access, esp with pjs, where they target them and say "We're going to take your press credentials if you don't behave and do what we say." - Siegel

Says press, especially at protests, are intimidated and chilled against doing their jobs when police are threatening to revoke their badges.

Justin Harrison from NYCLU speaking now, largely centering on press and their treatment during the BLM protests. Says it shouldn't land in the hands of "an agency famously resistant to public scrutiny and criticism."

Harrison slaps down against the idea of background checks, says if you don't need them to enter the capitol in Albany you shouldn't need them to cover events.

Harrison also pushes against Irving's argument that the NYPD should issue creds because they establish police lines, says unbiased issuance of credentials shouldn't be determined by people who establish physical boundaries.

Robert Roth, lawyer and journalist, coming out for much clearer policies, says he chairs with Yeger on the NY Bar's committee about media law. Says much more needs to happen, table the law.

Roth suggests setting up a new agency the same way taxi cab licensing was removed from NYPD authority and a new committee was established. Calling to bring back different types of cards – that includes photographers & sports journos – and press vehicle cards.

Where did @KeithPowersNYC go?

Yeger shows off his pocket Constitution, says he supports Roth's suggestions *except* for creating a new city agency. "I don't look at creating a new agency as the fix for anything, ever."

Yeger says real press should be able to prove "relatively simply" that they're real press. Ignores @KeithPowersNYC's previous statement about press who are real but haven't been able to get credentialed.

Yeger and Irving both appear to have fairly static ideas about how press exist in spaces where police are active. Lots of talk about barricades and police lines, no mention of police rushing crowds of demonstrators where press are intermingled in the crowd.

Siegel once again clarifies the conflict of interest, says background checks need to be pulled from the draft bill. Yeger very opposed to removing authority from NYPD to give out creds, instead floats shifting revocation authority to outside authority. Which is not the issue.

Yeger why are you so obsessed with keeping authority with the NYPD lol

Towaki Komatsu is speaking! Mask boi rise up!

Komatsu asks where are the reporters, who are the reporters?, in terms of a security detail story. Says someone committed perjury against him in federal court.

Asking some interesting questions about whistleblowers and censorship!

"Instead of having some agency grant access to members of the press, why not have whistleblowers whose news is censored get to choose who gets press credentials?"

Komatsu asks who's going to get endorsed by the NYPD and who's going to talk about that, "and have a good day." Ha.

Joel Kurtzberg, representing a journalist who has a pending case against the city and whose case prompted addressing the issuance/revocation system.

Kurtzberg says there were no due process rights for journalists whose credentials were revoked. Again discussing the various gaps in the rules: No notice, no cross-examination, etc.

"There have been instances where the public has had better access to (stuff) than the press."

Kurtzberg hits on the issue not on number of revocations, but the untold numbers of press who have had police threaten to revoke their press badges, hits on the issue of just cause.

Norman Siegel is smiling now.

Kurtzberg's client, Jamie Nicholas (sp?), speaking now. Condemns the bill on the basis of opposing background checks and lack of due process with revocations.

Towaki Komatsu got his mask under his nose again. Cmon man.

Says Nicholas, "Allowing the NYPD to seize credentials, even if they're issued by another agency, will achieve nothing." Repeats his opening remarks of "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush."

Todd Maisel speaking now, Press Photographers vice president. Says he's been in the business for 40 years, still in favor of the NYPD issuing press cards. Says they're not licenses to be journalists.

Which just reminded me I've been called fake press & blocked from covering where members of the public were by cops for not having an NYPD press card... Which kind of does make it a license to be a journalist, doesn't it? :)

I snuck around em anyway but....................................... cops 100% don't see press credentials as real unless it's through the NYPD. Would be nice if this were just philosophical questions and not actively causing problems.

Colin DeVries speaking now. Says he's president(?) of Deadline Club(?) a group of journalists. Aware of "a handful of cases" of press being hassled, arrested, assaulted by NYPD in the past year that he's happy to provide to council for review.

DeVries hits against the draft bill for a lot of similar reasons, basically that it's overly broad and there's a need for fixing all that up before any sort of vote on it.

Powers is back! Clarifying on background checks. Says intention is not to do background checks, doesn't want to create new obstacles. Guess that's getting yoinked from the bill.

"We want to work with people in the industry and in the field...to make a process that works for everyone," says Powers about developing the bill moving forward. My DMs are open, Keith!

No idea what Towaki is showing on his phone.

Craig Ruttle, 40+ year photographer says sometimes the credential has at times been an "impediment."

"Sometimes I think officers see it and the first thing they say is "you need to go over there, you can't stand there." The credential system to a degree is broken."

Which is true. Sometimes not being visibly press means you don't get clocked and pushed away, they don't block your view as aggressively. But that's more a strategic move, imo, among individual press to gauge what the vibe is.

Being visibly marked as press has deterred police from pushing as hard against me as they did the unmarked reporter who was kettled next to me. Also being visibly marked as press has caused police to get more aggressive about moving me out of a space, to prevent my coverage.

But you're not going to fix how cops react to the *existence* of press, regardless of where their badge is from by changing who issues it. Just make it so cops can't threaten to revoke a badge because a reporter isn't moving as quickly as they'd like.

Did my internet go down or did the hearing go offline?

Oh lol as soon as Cabrera said "And with that we conclude-" the hearing ended.

What's my problem that I was hoping there would be MORE of this?

So it seems the public comment was all the photogs/reporters who've been working for decades or journalists/attorneys representing established groups. None of whom, to my knowledge, covered any protests or demonstrations last year where there were no police lines to stand behind.

In summary:
- Draft bill needs to be reworked to more specifically define revocation process, totally cut the background check
- Conflict of interest by NYPD seems to just not exist for some while being core issue for others
- Press granted comment weren't otg this summer

- All press granted comment opposed the bill for reasons stemming from lack of clarity on revocation process and qualifying procedures and not over conflict of bias, with exception for Irving who opposed insisting NYPD is best arbiter of who gets to be credentialed bc police line