Y'know what, I'm tired of talking around this so I'm just going to thread this mess and you all can take it or leave it. @michaelsheen do you know why you're getting two wildly different pictures of the Salvation Army? I do.

If you know any history of the Army they started out in London in 1865, promising the Three S's. Soup, Soap, and Salvation. Christian missions (and imperialism) were having a big moment and William Booth, a Methodist minister thought maybe they could do more good at home.

William and his wife Catherine founded the Salvation Army to minister to the poor and socially excluded and because their hearts were in the right place and it was a very needed ministry, it took off. The soup and soap, most people know about. It's the face of the organization.

The salvation part has become a little less public and that's not an accident. You see the Salvation Army isn't just good at what they do. They're the best. If there's a war, earthquake or flood, they'll probably be the first ones on the scene right after emergency services.

They have shelters and kitchens everywhere to take care of the poor and neglected. And they've branched so far and wide that a lot of local governments have decided it's best to just leave those services in their hands.

And not just the government. Lots of aid organizations, like the Red Cross, often give money to the Salvation Army who are already on the ground rather than mobilizing their own people to isolated areas. It's more cost effective.

So let's say your family has been helped by the Army. Maybe you fell on hard times and got Christmas gifts through a toy drive, or went through a transitional housing program or maybe you have a raging meth addiction and your family have thrown you out for the last time.

These people helped you at your lowest and they didn't judge and so maybe you're more inclined to accept an invite to Sunday Meeting. Maybe you decide to volunteer. You get to know these people. Two things will become evident in short order.

First, everyone in the Army knows everyone in the Army. Despite being a global organization, it's a very small church and there are certain families who make up the bulk of the ministers (officers), staff and leadership.

Second, that this is a very large and well run business, and a very poor and poorly equipped church. The requirements for officers (ministers) who operate the corps (churches) is a 2 year training program at one of their colleges

You may find a handful of M-Divs in larger cities, but the bulk went to two years of officers training and mostly learned accounting and business management

Because the Army is run as a business first and a church second. Unfortunately those officers still have to preach and win souls and do all the things evangelical churches do with far less theological training

Many haven't studied the philisophical disciplines most ministers have that allow them to study scripture critically and make their own informed decisions. They're given the statements of belief and told to stay within those guidelines

Which is why one corps might have a wonderful minister with a tolerant congregation and another might have someone who is uncritically parroting anti-lgbt talking points in the pulpet because the Army doesn't care so long as fundraising quotas are met

Because they're so good at actually helping people in need, they attract a lot of well-meaning people eager to do that kind of work. Which is good, because the turnover rate for officers is insanely high.

And when officers go out of pocket and start preaching outside those guidelines, either in favor of LGBT folks, or when people are tossed from shelters, removed from volunteer rosters or when they simply drift away, rejected by their church...

To the Army it's not about their souls anymore. It's not about the individuals and it's certainly not about God. They issue a gag order to the the corps so they stop bleeding donation money, issue a public statement and do nothing to address the root issue.

"Doing the most good" is their motto, and it's accurate because they deal in numbers. If they feed 20000 people after an earthquake, it doesn't matter if four people left a church in the upper midwest US because the officer was preaching for their families to reject them.

They can afford to be callous because the donation money keeps pouring in so long as they keep showing high numbers of people served. After all, it isn't the poor and excluded paying them. It's the wealthy and powerful who would prefer not to know the grim details.

In short, If you ask the business if they discriminate, they'll answer you like a business. If you ask the church, they're not allowed to answer. So the voices you're going to hear in opposition are the Salvation Army's acceptable losses.