I'm going to say one thing about Marilyn Manson and BDSM and consent.

The age disparity is one method that abusers in BDSM communities use to victimize people. There are abusers in EVERY community, sadly. Unfortunately some elements of BDSM mirror abuse in ways that are

hard for OUTSIDERS or novices to distinguish. The latter being the often abused group; young people, new people, socially awkward or shy people, people with shame issues, etc.

BDSM shouldn't leave you feeling empty, hollow, sad, depressed, disgusted, etc.

It should be a fun

and POSITIVE release, even if to outsiders it doesn't look 'positive' and looks degrading, humiliating, etc.

I've worked with MANY MANY MANY MANY submissives who've come from previously abusive situations.

Most of them never thought they'd be in an abusive situation, they are powerful people in their lives, people who can take control, people who run companies.

But...were abused emotionally and/or physically.

Professionally AND personally, I believe Marilyn Manson is an abuser. I've seen abusers in our community and after listening to his former partner...

I believe her. All of it rings true.

Consent is key, but it's more than just positioning someone NOT to say no.

And with BDSM and especially D/s elements, and other power exchanges...the *real* truth is always thus:

The submissive actually holds all the power. They are the ones who can and should stop the scene at ANY TIME they wish. Period.

The Domme is controlling the scene,

orchestrating it. But at any point, they can say 'safe word!'

And it stops. There's no bullying. There's no bullshit. Now, if they're stopping it just to be bratty or in ways I don't think are about limits...then I can address that with them, OUTSIDE of sexy time.

And choose not to play with or work with them again.

But there's also a difference, a vast difference, between pushing and exploring boundaries...and stomping on them, or ignoring them, or not caring about them.

*sigh*

The whole thing both disgusts and angers me tbh.

And abusers are master manipulators, and they choose their victims like any predator, going for the ones they can most easily exploit. The weakest to *their* predatory tactics not 'weak people'.

Like I said, the subs I've worked with who've been abused and most have had at

least one bad experience, if not a bad BDSM relationship...are not 'weak people'. They were just easily exploited good/nice people.

Which is why it makes me all the angrier.

Though one of the best aspects of my work is taking a sub who's been taught they should have no value

And showing them how very, very wrong that is.

*sigh*

Anyway...abusers are just abusers. Whether they hide behind the veneer or respectability or a whip.

PS: Not all abusers are Machiavellian masterminds twirling a 'stache and calculating 4 moves ahead.

They are most often broken fucked up people who don't know how to not be toxic. This doesn't absolve accountability. It does mean when they accept accountability and

do the work, they can change. Most people aren't unchangeable monsters or psychopaths.

Many who can change choose not to, because it's too hard, or whatever.

But if you've been a dick in some of your previous relationships and you find abuse conversations uncomfy on that?

That's an opportunity for you to do some serious reflection on your accountability and then to talk with trusted friends on how to start the work.