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I'm watching the Justice Committee discuss the Hate Crime amendments and right now we've got Liam Kerr moving an amendment that permits criticising equal marriage.
Tories gonna Tory but it's gross to watch.
Tories gonna Tory but it's gross to watch.
Rhoda Grant will not be pursuing her amendment 112, which included:
"Behaviour or material is not to be taken to be threatening or abusive when it is for the purpose of advocating for womenâs rights."
"Behaviour or material is not to be taken to be threatening or abusive when it is for the purpose of advocating for womenâs rights."
The convener of the committee, Adam Tomkins MSP, is sharing his own view of hate crime law including around the "debate on transgender identity".
He is 'disturbed' by the reaction to 'reasonable' amendments originally put forward by Humza Yousaf that he is withdrawing.
He is 'disturbed' by the reaction to 'reasonable' amendments originally put forward by Humza Yousaf that he is withdrawing.
He is 'afraid' of the reaction to the amendments. (That says a lot about him; implies he wants to be transphobic.)
He asks whether or not "stating that there are only two sexes is transphobic". (Yes it is, and anti-intersex too.)
He asks whether or not "stating that there are only two sexes is transphobic". (Yes it is, and anti-intersex too.)
He speaks of the importance of defining what it means to be transphobic; which I do actually agree with.
I rather think we would create *different* definitions, however
There is a clear bias in the convening of this committee, however.
I rather think we would create *different* definitions, however
There is a clear bias in the convening of this committee, however.
Fulton MacGregor is now sharing his views on amendments 65 and 82 from Humza Yousaf.
Sharing that he had concerns about the unintended consequences that could have come out of amendment 82. He is glad that Yousaf won't press the amendment.
Sharing that he had concerns about the unintended consequences that could have come out of amendment 82. He is glad that Yousaf won't press the amendment.
Rona Mackay shared that protecting freedom of expression is important, but singling out specific characteristics will not lead to consensus.
Humza Yousaf has been invited to respond to the discussions.
Stating that while it's important to be clear, being very specific makes certain groups feel they are being targeted and marginalised.
Discusses adding freedom of expression clause to ALL characteristics.
Stating that while it's important to be clear, being very specific makes certain groups feel they are being targeted and marginalised.
Discusses adding freedom of expression clause to ALL characteristics.
ScotGov plans to come back at Stage 3 with a freedom of expression clause that is "strong" but will not make any group feel like they are being specifically targeted.
Liam McArthur is now summing up, and backing up the convener in his words earlier.
He states that amendment 103 addresses much of the concerns.
He states that amendment 103 addresses much of the concerns.
He has decided NOT to move amendment 103 and continue to work with others.
Members are content to withdraw this amendment.
They are now moving on to discussing amendments in the language grouping (there's only one - amendment 5).
Members are content to withdraw this amendment.
They are now moving on to discussing amendments in the language grouping (there's only one - amendment 5).
Nobody wanted to discuss it, the committee agrees amendment 5 (which I don't really understand).
Now discussing amendments on the characteristic of age which will be followed by a break.
Now discussing amendments on the characteristic of age which will be followed by a break.
Margaret Mitchell is moving an amendment which removes age from the list of characteristics & amendments which follow on from this.
If this amendment passes, amendment 87 cannot be taken as they conflict.
If this amendment passes, amendment 87 cannot be taken as they conflict.
Mitchell is discussing the findings of a Durham University professor (I missed the name) and what that means regarding elderly abuse.
I'm struggling to follow this, I'm not sure what side this research is taking, it's not clear.
I'm struggling to follow this, I'm not sure what side this research is taking, it's not clear.
Humza Yousaf is now discussing amendment 87 and others in this group.
He believes the inclusion of age in the hate crime bill will send a message to society.
He also notes that this does not solely refer to elderly people, or to children.
He believes the inclusion of age in the hate crime bill will send a message to society.
He also notes that this does not solely refer to elderly people, or to children.
(Aside: can people *please* mute their email notifications if they're playing their computer sound aloud when on calls?
It's disruptive to people listening.)
It's disruptive to people listening.)
Margaret Mitchell is summing up, stating that crimes against the young and old are not crimes based on hate but rather based on vulnerability.
She states we need legislation on exploitation of vulnerability. Amendment 30 has, however, been withdrawn.
She states we need legislation on exploitation of vulnerability. Amendment 30 has, however, been withdrawn.
Committee has now paused for 5 minutes.
After the break comes discussion of amendments in the Characteristic of Sex category, which will certainly be full of controversy.
After the break comes discussion of amendments in the Characteristic of Sex category, which will certainly be full of controversy.
We are back, discussing amendment 31 from Johann Lamont and subsequent amendments that follow on.
She is having technical difficulties, audio is difficult to hear. She is being moved to audio-only to improve the connection.
She is having technical difficulties, audio is difficult to hear. She is being moved to audio-only to improve the connection.
Lamont states that we must protect women, a group who are in the majority but nonetheless are affected by misogyny.
Amendment includes sex as a characteristic as it can be a motivator for hate crime. Says women are excluded from the bill as it stands.
Amendment includes sex as a characteristic as it can be a motivator for hate crime. Says women are excluded from the bill as it stands.
States that none of this legislation will work unless there is education on these issues; that sex needs to be included.
She argues that the group needs to look at how legislation can be used by abusers. Claims we should not use gender-neutral language.
She argues that the group needs to look at how legislation can be used by abusers. Claims we should not use gender-neutral language.
She claims that people feel uncomfortable including women in legislation because they are not a minority.
Lamont states that it is important to consider misogyny and include it in primary legislation.
Lamont states that it is important to consider misogyny and include it in primary legislation.
Lamont states that there is no risk that comes from including women in the bill & that it should be unacceptable to exclude them.
Should note: amendment text on including sex clearly ignores intersex people despite them being a much-ignored sex.
Should note: amendment text on including sex clearly ignores intersex people despite them being a much-ignored sex.
Humza Yousaf is now speaking, stating that ScotGov recognises the importance of tackling 'misogyny and all forms of gender-based violence'.
Knows there are strong & divergent views on how these issues should be tackled.
Knows there are strong & divergent views on how these issues should be tackled.
Many favoured including sex in the beginning, but further evidence has changed multiple people's views, including Yousaf's.
States that if adding sex was a 'neutral' act, he would support it, but there is findings that adding this could lead to harm to women.
States that if adding sex was a 'neutral' act, he would support it, but there is findings that adding this could lead to harm to women.
There are findings that unintended consequences to the inclusion of sex:
- low level of prosecutions would hide true extent of misogyny
- domestic abusers could use legislation against women as part of coercive control
Another amendment allows sex to be added at a later date.
- low level of prosecutions would hide true extent of misogyny
- domestic abusers could use legislation against women as part of coercive control
Another amendment allows sex to be added at a later date.
Committee's own stage 1 group advises to wait until working group finalises its recommendations (which will happen within 12 months) as to whether or not sex should be added.
Yousaf asks committee to give the working group the time to finish its research on this subject.
Yousaf asks committee to give the working group the time to finish its research on this subject.
Johann Lamont's amendments within this group include amendment 89 which controversially defines "woman" and "man" as being of any age.
Annabelle Ewing is sharing her thoughts on the amendments of this section. She wishes to reiterate points she shared at the end of 2020.
Ewing has been persuaded on the basis of evidence that wider reflection on this issue is long overdue.
Ewing has been persuaded on the basis of evidence that wider reflection on this issue is long overdue.
States that the absence of a sex aggravator in this legislation will *not* stop prosecutions in the meantime.
Concludes she supports allowing the working group to conduct its work without preempting the outcomes.
Concludes she supports allowing the working group to conduct its work without preempting the outcomes.
Rhoda Grant is supporting Johann Lamont's amendments for the same reasons she stated upon introducing her own amendment earlier.
Supports the setting up of the working group but the problem still remains that women do not have protection until that happens.
Supports the setting up of the working group but the problem still remains that women do not have protection until that happens.
While working group can guarantee they'll report in 12 months, no guarantee that their findings will be legislated on.
Supports adding sex now before the working group reports rather than the other way around.
Supports adding sex now before the working group reports rather than the other way around.