I've been thinking a lot about this conversation today, and it's brought up two issues for me that I'm going to tackle in this thread as separate topics. /1 https://twitter.com/kateatherley/status/1355743879643934721

First up: we talk a lot about process knitters v. product knitters, but I think there's another sharp distinction we don't talk about as much. There are knitters who follow patterns very closely, and then there are knitters who think of them more as guidelines. /2

As a knitter who's always been in the latter group, I find the former fascinating. In the context of this particular convo (the issue of how "place marker at BOR" doesn't work for DPNs because the marker falls off if the BOR is at the end of the needle), ... /3

it truly never occurred to me to try to put the marker on the end of the needle because of course it would fall off. If it makes no sense, it's probably because it's not supposed to be done that way. So I experimented and researched until I found other solutions. /4

Now, as a pattern designer, I have to write with both of these crowds in mind, even though I am still firmly in the "general guidelines" camp. Because my brain doesn't work the other way, I depend on the input of others (my tech editor and some wonderful test knitters). /5

I work to have a diverse crowd of test knitters for exactly that reason. Things that are perfectly clear to one group of people may not be to another, and it can be hard to catch that without the input of someone from that second group who can chime in and say so. /6

Many think of knitwear design as a fairly solitary endeavor, but if you're not regularly talking to other knitters about what makes sense to them and what doesn't, your patterns aren't going to be as good as they could be. That includes talking to disabled and ND knitters. /7

And in the end, you may find that the needs or preferences of different groups of knitters may be in conflict, so you have to make a judgment call about how to serve the knitters you're trying to reach.

Which brings me to my second point. /8

Kate's concern seems to focus, reasonably, on newer knitters who might be confused and discouraged by the BOR marker instruction--but I don't design patterns for new knitters, and I'd venture to guess that many of the designers I see here on Twitter don't, either. /9

My patterns are clear, but they assume a baseline level of knowledge. I'll occasionally include a tutorial for an unusual technique or something I have trouble explaining in words, but I'm not going to show you how to do a 2/1/2 cable or a particular cast-on. /10

Given that assumption of baseline knowledge, I'm also going to assume the knitter knows that "place marker at BOR" is shorthand for "do what you need to do to keep track of where the round starts and ends, whatever works for you." /11

For my patterns, if you're going to be confused by the BOR instruction, you're going to be confused by a lot of other stuff, too. You may not be ready for them yet, or you may need to rely on your googling skills. That's okay. /12

I make this pretty clear in the abundant information I provide on my pattern listing pages. I include information about the techniques required in the pattern and flag the pattern difficulty level as intermediate. They're not meant to explain every single step. /13

This gets back to the conversation about just how detailed and specific knitting patterns need to be. They've grown longer and more detailed even in just the years I've been knitting (I started in 2007), and looking at patterns from long ago is mind-boggling. /14

At some point, you start including so much explanatory information that you reach the other end of the horseshoe and the pattern becomes unclear again. Where is that point? It'll be different for different groups of knitters, I suspect. /15

That's why, like @Velociraptoria_, I like the range in writing styles among indie designers and am reluctant to standardize too aggressively. Different groups of knitters have different needs, and not all designers are going to be a good fit for your specific needs. /16

One might prefer a bare-bones pattern with the minimum amount of necessary information bc it's hard to sift through extraneous info. Another might need things written out very clearly. A third might need to have sizes grouped in one way or another. /17

As for me, I have a couple free patterns available so knitters can see for themselves whether our styles line up well before plonking down money for a paid pattern. If we're not a good fit, no hard feelings. /18

But I suspect, at least as far as my patterns are concerned, this specific BOR marker issue is largely academic. Beginners aren't going to attempt most of my sock patterns. 19/19