Digging up ancient 2000s history with @Patrick_Macias , I thought about the attempt (mostly by Tokyopop but also by several other publishers, including Del Rey and Seven Seas) to make ‘manga style graphic novels’ (200 pages, B&W, 5”x7.5”) by USAan creators and how it failed 1/x

So many publishers tried this but it ultimately had NO impact on publishing (besides launching the careers of some rad folk like Becky Cloonan, Svetlana Chmakova, Felipe Smith etc). Some thoughts... 2/x

Firstly, clearly the (to varied degrees by publisher) culturally appropriative “hey! it’s manga!” branding would not work today and was largely rejected then. I agree to a point... but, beyond that point, manga is just superior comics technology and it’s stupid not to copy it 3/x

Tokyopop wisely avoided doing “non-Japanese creators doing stories set in Japanese high schools” thing but not everyone was so smart. The fact some publishers made their USAan artists draw comics right to left “to be manga-like” still weirds me out 4/x

The sad thing is, there really were some good ‘manga-influenced’ books, but they were largely rejected by USAan fans who, frankly, fetishized the Japaneseness of manga. And of course, any popular Japanese manga has MEGA free advertising compared to a book by a USAan unknown 5/x

..and I’m partly responsible too! Since I didn’t have any ‘USAan manga’ in Manga: The Complete Guide..cuz frankly the question of ‘what does manga-influenced mean’ is SO fraught, I didn’t want to be the jerk deciding Ben Dunn or Wendy & Richard Pini weren’t cool enough. :/ 6/x

Some Tokyopop staffer tried to convince me to put their manga-ish books in MtCG but I was all “meh.” And honestly I still feel I basically did it the right way, because once you go beyond ‘manga is original comics published in Japan’, manga is too hard to meaningfully define. 7/x

But regardless, I followed the trend which helped crush ‘USAan manga’: I drew a hard line keeping it separate from Japanese manga, knowing there wasn’t a warm welcome waiting for it among non-manga-fans either. :/ It wasn’t serious enough for Serious Graphic Novel Reviewers 8/x

Anyway these USAan manga books all sold poorly and never came back after the manga crash of 2009-2011 which took out Tokyopop and other companies. Which is a shame because I admired what they were trying, even though i failed to lend a hand when it could’ve helped. 9/x

The weird thing is tho... manga influence is still HUGE among Western creators! It’s more like just the format Tokyopo tried didn’t work. What really failed in the US market was:

* black & white
* serialized graphic novels with volume numbers

10/x

Firstly, black & white. It is *hard* to find a B&W GN especially aimed at a YA audience (besides Japanese manga) nowadays!! Because as much as I love B&W, as much as B&W art is its own beautiful thing, I guess... people frickin’ love color! It’s nuts! 11/x

Occasionally I meet some1 who says “I love comics but I don’t like them in B&W! Comics should be in color!“ and my first response is “Fuck you, dude. I bet you also prefer colorized movies.” BUT SADLY clearly there are a lot of people who like color. And color *is* lovely. 12/x

So, the added cost of printed color is generally worth it. (And obvs there’s no added cost online.) I do see some amazing use of limited color like in Kristina Gehrmann’a epic and very manga “The Jungle” adaptation. But it’s rare, it’s niche. 13/x https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/603965/the-jungle-by-upton-sinclair-adapted-and-illustrated-by-kristina-gehrmann-translated-by-ivanka-hahnenberger/

The other thing: serialized stories.

Manga is of course famous for having 20+ volume numbered runs. You want to read One Piece? Start with number 1 and get counting!!

But, even when I was at Viz, the sad fact is sales almost always decline rapidly after volume 1. 14/x

When Viz was tiny in the early 90s, we/they knew “volume 5” on a cover was a death sentence when someone saw it on the shelf and couldn’t find vols 1-4.

That’s when Viz (& Dark Horse) did cheap tricks like not showing the volume number to trick people into buying mid-series 15/x

Of course then you’d end up buying, like, ”Maison Ikkoku: Wacky Hijinx” not realizing it was really Maison Ikkoku vol 4. And maybe if Viz was lucky you’d like it anyway.

As manga pubs got bigger & more confident they stopped this silliness. But late-volume sales remain low 16/x

Knowing this, most USAan comic/GN publishers ABHOR doing even a 2- or 3-volume series. Self-contained GNs are always preferred.

But, of course, this means you can’t do those super cliffhanger stories (the infamous 400 page DBZ fights etc) that are so ‘manga’. 17/x

So, simply, the US publishing industry isn’t strong/confident enough to support multi volume GNs, unless they have misleading covers and the volumes are ‘semi-self-contained’. Like old DC Vertigo story arcs that go 6 comic issues (1 graphic novel) each. 18/x

Tokyopo ignored this chickenshittery (aka ‘knowing the market’) and, with great confidence, tried multivolume numbered series. BUT of course they had the high-number sales slump. It just doesn’t work well (dammit).

Honestly I don’t even know how Japanese manga does it 19/x

So, manga influence still exists of course, but the B&W art and the mega ambitious story arcs aren’t supported by the USA publishing biz.

Which sucks.

Aaaand that’s 20 tweets so that’s about all i can say on the topic 20/x