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St. Louis Board of Aldermen about to discuss a Board Bill 200 to approve a contract with Persistent Surveillance Systems (PSS) to provide aerial surveillance.
Baltimore police recently said that PSS has committed “serious breaches of confidentiality." https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/crime/bs-pr-md-ci-cr-bpd-spy-plane-letter-20201230-kxzofgo7l5bghcgahx3p4jzksy-story.html
Baltimore police recently said that PSS has committed “serious breaches of confidentiality." https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/crime/bs-pr-md-ci-cr-bpd-spy-plane-letter-20201230-kxzofgo7l5bghcgahx3p4jzksy-story.html
Listen to the discussion here:
Ald. Oldenburg, who is sponsoring the bill, said it will help the police solve murders. Ross McNutt, owner of PSS, is describing what company does. There are 24 people to speak in opposition of the bill and a couple folks to speak in support, according to the committee chairman.
Ross McNutt said his company would operate 3 surveillance planes which would fly above the city for 18 hours per day. The yellow squares show where the planes would fly.
A six-month pilot program in Baltimore concluded on Oct. 31, which studied whether the overhead surveillance planes could help lower Baltimore’s violent crime rates. McNutt shared these preliminary statistics during the hearing.
C Sharp, an ambassador for the city, testifying in support of BB200. "It's time to respond to the homicide rate. It will not be so in your face as hiring more police officers or hot-spot policing."
Another speaker in support of bill said the quality of the cameras can't identify the race or gender. Humans only look like dots, example shown below. (Note: PSS would have access to the city's surveillance cameras, which McNutt also showed in his presentation.)
. @GConnolly314: "The public hasn't been engaged. The mayor, the director of public safety, the police chief, none of those people were engaged in a substantive dialogue about this."
Sarah Baker, of @aclu_mo, testifying that the statistics McNutt provided on crime statistics in Baltimore were incomplete. "We are giving up a lot to use this technology and we need to know if it's effective." A review of Baltimore program showed the need for more accountability.
Keith Rose testifying in opposition: there is no legal mechanism to prevent this information from being subpoenaed. Baltimore has faced several lawsuits in relation to PSS. This is the wrong time for STL to come under more costly litigation.
Alicia Hernandez, Privacy Watch, opposes BB200: This kind of surveillance is about eroding privacy of the most vulnerable. Black and brown communities are more likely to be targeted, as they were in Baltimore. And city has no regulations in place to protect them.
Background: @AnnieRiceStL's BB95 to update St. Louis city's privacy policies (discussed in this article
) is currently stalled. In partnership w/ @typeinvestigate, the @StLouisAmerican did a deep dive into the city's privacy laws, linked here as well. http://www.stlamerican.com/news/local_news/surveillance-privacy-bill-advances-on-heels-of-spy-plane-resolution/article_82172078-c6de-11ea-9572-bf592da26c17.html
) is currently stalled. In partnership w/ @typeinvestigate, the @StLouisAmerican did a deep dive into the city's privacy laws, linked here as well. http://www.stlamerican.com/news/local_news/surveillance-privacy-bill-advances-on-heels-of-spy-plane-resolution/article_82172078-c6de-11ea-9572-bf592da26c17.html
Kevin James, community organizer of Baltimore, submitted this column to @MO_Independent about his experience with Persistent Surveillance Systems. Just posted. https://missouriindependent.com/2021/01/05/weve-lived-under-mcnutts-persistent-surveillance-heres-why-st-louis-should-say-no/
Dorothy Rohde-Collins, president of SLPS school board, speaking in opposition. Doesn't agree with the company's intent to inform high school students about the aerial surveillance as a way to scare them away from crime. Said it doesn't align with best educational practices.
Ald. @MeganEllyia asking Ald. Oldenburg about bill's emergency clause that would enact the contract w/ PSS before a new mayor is elected in spring. New Baltimore mayor doesn't support & it's been challenging.
Oldenburg: We need to move forward to address crime and govern.
Oldenburg: We need to move forward to address crime and govern.
Green: why are we pushing this before the Baltimore's pilot program report is released?
Oldenburg: I don't need report to move forward.
Green: why isn't public safety director here?
Oldenburg: Jimmie Edwards is leaving it up to BOA & said needs to start w "legislative body"
Oldenburg: I don't need report to move forward.
Green: why isn't public safety director here?
Oldenburg: Jimmie Edwards is leaving it up to BOA & said needs to start w "legislative body"
Green: Neighborhood associations don't meet over holidays. The contract became available during a time we can't engage w/ constituents. Why would we not do more community engagement?
Oldenburg: Murder victims I engaged with didn't want to testify today.
Oldenburg: Murder victims I engaged with didn't want to testify today.
Green: We would have to have a prosecutor who would be willing to accept this type of information (CA Kim Gardner submitted testimony in opposition of contract w/ PSS.)
Oldenburg: "That's her call."
Oldenburg: "That's her call."
Ald @AnnieRiceStL: This bill needs to be vetted by the city's Criminal Justice Coordinating Council. Have you reached out to CJCC?
Oldenburg: No
Expressing concern that a private company will have access to private information about residents.
Oldenburg: No
Expressing concern that a private company will have access to private information about residents.
In July hearing for Rice's privacy bill, public safety committee didn't pass it bc she didn't bring in police chief, public safety director or get input from CJCC. Rice said that should apply to a 3-yr contract w/ a private co. that would have access to city's surveillance info.
Ald Bret Narayan: Who negotiated this contract?
Oldenburg: Took the MOU w/ Baltimore by Ross McNutt and engaged Downtown STL's lobbyist. Between the contract, lobbyist attorney and myself we came up with this.
N: So no city counselor?
O: No
Oldenburg: Took the MOU w/ Baltimore by Ross McNutt and engaged Downtown STL's lobbyist. Between the contract, lobbyist attorney and myself we came up with this.
N: So no city counselor?
O: No
Ald @chryssi: Who is paying for the Rand study (of Baltimore pilot program)?
Oldenburg: Same folks who funded the Baltimore contract. (Texas philanthropists Laura and John Arnold, through their organization Arnold Ventures)
Oldenburg: Same folks who funded the Baltimore contract. (Texas philanthropists Laura and John Arnold, through their organization Arnold Ventures)
Ingrassia: I was hoping the resolution you passed in July would be followed. You thought it was important to educate people, work with Rice on BB95, ensure protections for city's surveillance info. I'm asking you to hold this bill so we can hear more testimony.
Ald. @DanGuentherSTL: Reading Baltimore Sun article where McNutt talks about selling info to auto insurance companies. "You are directly quoted in it."
McNutt: We protect this info as if it's our own children. We have extensive oversight.
McNutt: We protect this info as if it's our own children. We have extensive oversight.
