Thread by @BullCityVA, THREAD: So I occasionally get people asking me about in-house gigs, and [...]

THREAD: So I occasionally get people asking me about in-house gigs, and this is about the time when people start looking (and I happen to be about to post a job...)

"In-house" is an extremely varied practice that depends wholly upon the size of your company, what your company does, what you do for them, and the structure of your department. So it's essentially like saying "law firm" without specifying it's a solo or biglaw.

(In-house can also be "in-house" for non-profits, where you are counsel to the non-profit itself, so it need not even be a for-profit company.)

So, recognizing that I will be making some generalizations and your mileage may vary, here are a few things people often ask me:
(1) Do you have to take the bar everywhere you go?

No, I do not take the bar everywhere I go. In-house offers a lot more geographic mobility. For most states you just need to be licensed to practice and in good standing with the bar in ANY state. Sometimes you have to register (and of course they want you to pay a fee...).

But I do not have to keep taking tests everywhere I go.

HOWEVER, I am not primarily a litigation attorney and I do not represent the company in court. (I could go pro hac on occasion if I wanted to be named, but outside counsel is for filing things in my world.)

(2) Do they hire directly from law school?

Sometimes, yes. Smaller companies are more likely to hire directly from law school. If you have prior industry experience as a non-lawyer, that will certainly help. There are also lots of JD-preferred roles that will hire new grads.

In general, however, companies view law firms as the training grounds for in-house attorneys and want someone with 3-5 years experience first.

You do not necessarily need experience in a certain area of law or a certain industry (of course it helps).

(4) Are companies as big on prestige as biglaw firms?

In general, no. A strong resume certainly helps to establish the presumption of competence and credibility, and you're more likely to get in with zero industry experience if you have biglaw vs. small-law.

But I regularly work with attorneys who have completely different backgrounds in terms of prior experience.

Corporations also tend to be much more genuinely interested in equity and diversity than firms because they're hiring for the long term.

(5) WTF is up with the titles?

That depends on the company. But in general there are two (rough) paths for in-house titles.

Law Department specific title progression:
Assoc./Asst. Counsel
Counsel
Sr. Counsel
Assist/Assoc. Gen Counsel
VP
Deputy Gen Counsel
Gen Counsel

Obviously depends on size of company and there are lots of variations. My current company has no GC, and no Deputy GC. Many have no Deputy GC. And a lot have combined titles ("VP & AGC") or "Head of Department X"

Sometimes the internal titles parallel the business titles:
Specialist
Mgr.
Sr Mgr.
Assoc. Director
Director
Sr. -> Exec. Dir.
VP
SVP
EVP

and then finance does whatever the f*ck finance does, you'll have to ask them because I have no idea about how they title. :)

Also, many organizations are "flat" (fewer titles, and fewer folks in the chain of command), and so many people can stay at Director or Sr. Counsel for decades.

(6) What does in-house pay?

HOOOO boy. It's a range. However, unlike law firms, you want to pay attention to the TOTAL PACKAGE.

Many companies offer target bonuses. They also may offer 401k match. They also almost always offer equity: RSUs (share grants) or stock options.

Stock is usually a long-term retention tool with a vesting schedule, so it can be a huge accumulator over time if you stay in one place but is less up front.

Bonus targets range from like 10-40%. The higher your level, the higher the target.

I can tell you my base pay at each of the jobs I've gotten (and the offers I've received), if you want to DM me.

But I also have friends who are not making what I make, so who knows.

It IS typically a step-down from your biglaw salary, esp to start, if that's you.

(7) Why in-house?

I have an extremely varied practice as the do-er of (nearly) all law topic-y things at my company.

I learn a business and work with non-lawyers 90% of my time.

I have a lot of autonomy.

I work normal 40-hour work weeks (with exceptions for light or heavy weeks). I take all of my vacations. I've never canceled a vacation for work. I don't respond to emails from vacation.

I rarely work on weekends.

I get to contribute to real outcomes. I get to meet patients. I get to help set a course for a company. Shareholders, patients, employees and other stakeholders depend on me to do things right.

It's a long-term career. Firms are usually up-or-out (advance to partner or stay a few years and get the "soft push", or the "hard push" out the door). You can stay at the same level in a company if you want, alternating between seeking advancement and seeking balance.

(8) What are the "JD-preferred jobs" you speak of in-house?

Trade: Export and trade/supply chain compliance roles.

Audit. Quality. (Wide range of advance degrees preferred)

Compliance/Investigations/ABAC (anti-bribery)

Anti-counterfeiting.

Regulatory.

Contracting.

Those also are more likely to hire recent grads.

If you think you may want to do one of those, DM me and I will tell you what I know and try to connect you to someone in my network who does that.

(9) Got a question about paralegals:

For Litigation, you should look at Litigation Support roles (specialist, manager) or Litigation specialist.

(but many industries outsource significant litigation so fewer gigs for paras in lit in-house)

But paralegals, you can also apply for JD-preferred roles! If you have transactional/contracts experience, you can be competitive for Contracts Manager, Contracts Specialist, Contracts Administrator, etc. type-roles.

You would typically be negotiating contracts up to a certain amount, managing and organizing templates, helping complete templates, identifying clauses of concern, running metrics/analytics, keeping track of the process/system, etc.

(3) BECAUSE I AM SO MAD I SKIPPED #3 IN MY LIST EARLIER.

Got a question re: firm attorneys who aren't ready to jump just yet about how what they can do now to be more competitive for in-house roles

As a firm lawyer, the biggest thing you can do is work on projects (pro bono is fine) in as many areas of the law as you can. If you're litigation, that means picking up transactional/employment work and vice-versa.

A LOT of in-house lawyers are generalists.

(bigger multinational companies, you're more likely to be specialized; certain areas require specialization (patents); smaller companies, more likely to be "Doer of All Things Legal-ish")

To the extent you can steer your matters (difficult at first, easier after a year at the firm), try to pick up matters in industries you may think you may want to work in so that when you decide to leave the firm, you can make 2-3 resumes based on industries.

For example, companies focusing on retail often want people who have experience dealing with the issues that pop up in having lots of locations, lots of employees, lots of products and interactions with the public.

Healthcare/pharma/med device/biotech is highly regulated, same with finance, oil & gas, etc. so they often want people who know about their business.

(That does NOT mean you shouldn't apply if you don't have it. I'd never worked for pharma clients before going in-house.)

The other big things come at interviewing time. What companies want from lawyers is very different from what firms want from lawyers.

You often spend your time talking to non-lawyers. No memos - simple explanations, immediate responses based on existing knowledge.

We write wayyyyyy more e-mails than memos and briefs.

Most companies still love PowerPoint. So presentation skills help (crystallizing important points for analysis vs. lengthy analysis).

It helps to have a philosophy/style for how you advise in-house clients. There are lots of books about this, and people's philosophies and style change over time (and with the clients), but here's mine at a high-level:

If the law is clear, and it's illegal, then nobody in the company can knowingly make a decision to break the law in advance with my advice. That's the same whether the law is stupid or of little/no consequence (i.e., font size on an advertisement or something).

If it's in a gray area, we evaluate risk. My job is to identify important risks and escalate them to the appropriate level in the organization for a risk-based decision and advice. (Usually the business will be the one to decide, with my advice.)

I also help the company apply "soft" values, like business ethics, reputational risk, patient centricity, etc. That's a business decision.

But I NEVER compromise patient safety, and everyone who hires me knows this because I tell them in interviews.

Companies also want to know if you can be creative -- so someone will often bring me a proposal to evaluate for risk. So first I say "What are you trying to accomplish?" Not the activity -- the ultimate goal.

I then keep that in mind. Because there may be ways to tweak the proposal/activity to reduce risk or other ways to achieve the business objective with lower risk. My job is to propose those solutions.

Many law firms aren't super nice. People need to be MUCH more collegial in companies than in firms. There's a culture of how problems are solved and how you approach disagreement in each company, and they want people who fit into that.

Law firms sometimes can reward arrogance or intractability. Companies (often) prefer quiet confidence, collaboration, and service orientation. (In legal, you're a "cost center" and a service provider, not a hot shot.)

And if you're at a firm, you swoop in to solve a particular problem for a client. If you're at a company, you are ALSO the client. You need to be invested in the long-term success of the company, not weirdly detached and academic.

Successful in-house lawyers learn the business side. They actively participate in business meetings, contribute, build relationships. They manage to budget, they understand how the business succeeds and its competitive pressures, and they contribute to successful outcomes.

This doesn't mean you do whatever they want and say yes. But it does mean you don't say no just because you can to eliminate all risk (like a law school issue spotter). It also means that you weigh business objectives with risk as though it were your company.

(10) LMAO: got another question. Where to find in-house jobs?

http://GoInHouse.com @goinhouse has some.
LinkedIn. Companies love LinkedIn.
Indeed.
Recruiters. (New England Legal Search, Major Lindsay & Africa, Barker Gilmore, Parker&Lynch, Lucas Group are some big ones.)

Latest Threads Unrolled: