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//THREAD\\\\ Tua Tagovailoa — What should we do in Dynasty?
11/16/19 Tua suffered his gruesome hip dislocation & posterior wall fracture.
Questions surrounded Tua after this. Will medicals check out? How will it affect him?
I think we’re seeing early cause for concern..
11/16/19 Tua suffered his gruesome hip dislocation & posterior wall fracture.
Questions surrounded Tua after this. Will medicals check out? How will it affect him?
I think we’re seeing early cause for concern..
1. Mobility at Bama
At Bama, we saw Tua consistently escape pressure in the pocket to extend plays. Yes, concerns remained about him holding the ball too long, but point was, he could escape pressure.
At Bama, we saw Tua consistently escape pressure in the pocket to extend plays. Yes, concerns remained about him holding the ball too long, but point was, he could escape pressure.
•13 months removed from surgery, we are seeing significant pocket mobility concerns. Could be a mixture of not adjusting to NFL speed, waiting on his WRs to get open, etc etc... Tua didn’t just forget how to navigate a pocket. I do believe his hip is limiting his mobility.
2. Intermediate+ Throws Bama
Highlighting his follow through on this throw. He shifts his weight through his right leg, goes into internal rotation, & generates force through his whole body to complete the throw. Not relying just on arm strength.
Highlighting his follow through on this throw. He shifts his weight through his right leg, goes into internal rotation, & generates force through his whole body to complete the throw. Not relying just on arm strength.
•In MIA, he has consistently planted his right foot & generated majority of his force through trunk < arm, instead of following through with engaging right hip+trunk+arm.
It’s an inefficient measure and can actually cause him to lose velocity (we’ve seen this in some throws).
It’s an inefficient measure and can actually cause him to lose velocity (we’ve seen this in some throws).
Check the hip angle difference (my app isn’t working so I can’t mark arrows/angles on the pictures). Drastically different.
“This is just one picture.”
Trust me. I watched every throw from Tua’s last 5 games. It’s the same in 99% of his throws. Upright, all upper body.
“This is just one picture.”
Trust me. I watched every throw from Tua’s last 5 games. It’s the same in 99% of his throws. Upright, all upper body.
3. Power Throws Bama
We saw his arm strength consistently at Bama, throwing almost like a pitcher does with a follow through over the plant hip.
Bullet.
We saw his arm strength consistently at Bama, throwing almost like a pitcher does with a follow through over the plant hip.
Bullet.
•In MIA, I’ve seen a ton of these throws. He rolls/twists away to his right, almost like fading back following the throw... He has consistently relied on this mvmt pattern with a LOT of low ADOT throws. It’s what has boosted his Comp% & Accuracy Rating.
•Off back foot
•All arm
•Off back foot
•All arm
4. Deep Throws
Again, relied on full body to generate strength through plant leg/hip, trunk, & throwing arm follow-through.
Incredibly accurate, which was one of his best traits as a prospect.
Again, relied on full body to generate strength through plant leg/hip, trunk, & throwing arm follow-through.
Incredibly accurate, which was one of his best traits as a prospect.
•MIA - Deep throws have been where Tua’s issues are most pronounced. See below, he’s relying on core & arm to push the arm down the field. He doesn’t fully lean into his Right plant leg & instead rotates at the trunk. Minimal lower body/hip rotation.
It visibly effects accuracy.
It visibly effects accuracy.
•An interesting note from @TheJoeMarino on Tua’s Draft Profile:
“Very deliberate with lower body follow through & rotation.”
This is visible on his Bama film.
This is exactly what I’m NOT seeing in his Miami film.
“Very deliberate with lower body follow through & rotation.”
This is visible on his Bama film.
This is exactly what I’m NOT seeing in his Miami film.
•Another note from Marino:
“...wins from the feet up in the pocket. Does a terrific job navigating the pocket..”
Again, seen on the Bama film.
NOT seen on the Miami film.
I do think the prime culprit is Tua’s hip.
Here’s the question:
Can it improve?
“...wins from the feet up in the pocket. Does a terrific job navigating the pocket..”
Again, seen on the Bama film.
NOT seen on the Miami film.
I do think the prime culprit is Tua’s hip.
Here’s the question:
Can it improve?
This is the part that depends on many factors.1. Is there a structural deficit that’s stopping Tua from moving how he moved at Bama?
2. Can he overcome the psychological hurdle of a traumatic injury & having to adjust to NFL speed?
I think Yes, to an extent.
•One of his best looking throws incorporating full rotation & follow through from the Raiders game. He’s only had a handful of these throws over his last 5 games... but promising that he’s shown that he CAN get back to form.
Likely not structural. More neuromuscular.
Likely not structural. More neuromuscular.
•Improved rotation here, though you can tell at the very end of his follow through he stops short. Sure enough, velocity of the throw isn’t quite what you’d want to see, & it’s slightly low.
Counter-point of course is that he intended to throw it this way for his WR.
Counter-point of course is that he intended to throw it this way for his WR.
•The throws I want to see improve are when he’s pressured.
At Bama, he wasn’t afraid to step into this throw & lead his WR.
Here, he looks hesitant/avoidant of contact & leads to an underthrow (he’s had quite a few of these over the last 5 games..).
At Bama, he wasn’t afraid to step into this throw & lead his WR.
Here, he looks hesitant/avoidant of contact & leads to an underthrow (he’s had quite a few of these over the last 5 games..).
If I’m an NFL team facing Tua, I’m pressuring the heck out of him right now (Raiders succeeded significantly when pressuring Tua.. his good throws came with only 3-4 pass rushers).
Pressure him & force him to navigate the pocket. He’s shown mobility deficits.
Pressure him & force him to navigate the pocket. He’s shown mobility deficits.
This is also my best guess of why Brian Flores keeps pulling Tua as well. He’s done well with a lower ADOT or less pressure, but struggles to push the ball downfield.
I do think the hip has limited Tua. But I also believe these issues can improve.
I do think the hip has limited Tua. But I also believe these issues can improve.
The key will be the psychological component as well.
When will Tua be comfortable leaning into pressure & leaning into his plant leg, exposing that side to hits..?
Could be next year. Could be never.
I hope he gets with a trainer & works on these areas though.
When will Tua be comfortable leaning into pressure & leaning into his plant leg, exposing that side to hits..?
Could be next year. Could be never.
I hope he gets with a trainer & works on these areas though.
What am I doing in dynasty?Tua is a Hold. There are signs for improvement, plus MIA likely upgrades his weapons.
I’d still rank him behind:
Burrow
Herbert
Hurts (? Maybe?)
TLaw
& arguably Justin Fields/Zach Wilson.
Wouldn’t blame you for moving Tua for any of these guys.
Point blank — this is far from the Tua that we saw at Bama.
He has a ways to go. But I’m very curious to see how he does with a full offseason to keep rehab’ing, training, & building rapport with his weapons.
If I’m Flores, Fitz would be my starter for playoffs.
He has a ways to go. But I’m very curious to see how he does with a full offseason to keep rehab’ing, training, & building rapport with his weapons.
If I’m Flores, Fitz would be my starter for playoffs.
