@kgorilla5
@hmyaoi1
@ColeMoleson
@BasedMobster
1.OK so here is my response to the mess.
Here we have 2 things: the good ol calculation problem and Marxists having no idea what they are talking about when it comes to post-capitalism.
Lets address the latter first.

2.For some reason a lot of leftcoms/classical marxists/orthodox marxists believe that socialismand comunism are very decentralised.This comes from interpretation of shit said inThe German ideology(btw i very much dislike the book and think there is a reason it was never published

3.There marx says that comunism will be the freee asociation of producers. I do agree with this but i have always interpreted it as producers being free from the limitations of capital as a concept and not free as in anarchic decentralised way.
As i will show later decentralised

4.communism is not technologically possible and doesnt make much sense( you would need some kind of hive min d tech for pure peer to peer society). Untill that is the case we will have to connect to a server.

5. Now that we cleared up that we are not talking about a situation of separate "communities" producing for eachother( and thus leading to barter, common unit and markets) we need to define what we are talking about.
A post capitalist system will have to be

6. global(ideally ofc in practice it will take time to become global) and planned. Society will exist as one unit, this fixes the problem of independent parties going after self interest and thus leading to transactions or exploitation.

7.What about the "no state" tho, you ask. Here we have another example of marxism being incomplete. Marx often talks about the state as a tool of class oppression and something that goes away with the end of class society(this is later picked up by people like Lenin).

8.The problem here is that we still havent defined what the state actually is. Its just a vague description of what it does in cap society and in the past. So we can say the the state as defined by Karl goes away with the fall of capitalism but what we normally associate with

9.state or state like institution will stay. So i well use the Max Weber definition from here on( btw the concept of civil society and the political state being separate things is a liberal idea, they are both part of the society machine as a whole).

10. Now that we have established that we are talking about a global planned economy, its time to talk about how it will function and how it deals with the problem information and calculation.
But in order to do that we must first start with capitalism yet again.

11.Capitalism was so revolutionary because it was the first globally connected system of constant flow. In feudalism or the asiatic mode of production there were calculation of what should be produced each month, each year and so on. But it was still mostly people

12. giving other people rough estimates of what is needed.
In capitalism we have private firms competing with each other( in search for profit) and thus leading to a constant feedback of improvement. Not adapting means bankruptcy.
Also, because everything is stripped to

13.a common unit of account every product can be measured against every other. The existence and the flow of this information thru the market serves as signals of what people what and how it measures in terms of value needed to anything else.

14.But capitalism does not exist in this perfect state. There is no perfect information or perfect competition. Also its a system of private enterprises with short sighted wants. This leads to problems like undersaturation, overproduction, falling profits and so on.

15.Also, supply and demand forces can never be balanced and thus producers are not in a perfect competition to satisfy needs. Sometimes production creates its own demand and so on. For more info on why neoclassicism is wrong watch this:

16. Now that we have showed that capitalism is undesirable ( well there are more reasons, look everything Marx wrote, workers self interest and so on.) we can talka bout postcapitalism.The first concept of a post-capitalist system was actually mutualism(i dont count untopian soc)

17.The basics of mutualism are still very liberal in a way. There is still a marked and exchange on it but the idea is that it is classless. It tries to fix proletariat- bourgeoisie dynamic by the creation of cooperatives( or sometimes even MOP commonly owned by all but

18 .exchange of commodities still happens. Mutualism also relies on the LTV to explain exploitation and and tries to fix it by introducing Labor money. But as Marx points out, this system still has a lot of the problems with capitalism and will eventually revert back to it.

19.This is where the need to end the law of value is introduced. We also have the first concept of labour vouchers in Gothacritik(uncirculating labour currency).
But the first socialist projects dont expand on this concept directly.

20.The main theories on the subject are the ones of Otto Neurath in Vienna and the soviet planners in the USSR. They existed kind of separately from each other and are worth a threat on their own. Nice and short Otto comes up with calculation in kind and the soviet planners

21.created a system based on the german war economy. It was based on top down planning and still kept elements of the old system( like money but i na a different way and some kind of small scale commodity production).
Now here comes the calculation problem by Mises and the

22.information problem by Hayek. Mises critiqued the socialist commonwealth with the idea that of there are no price signals enterprises will not know how to produce things efficiently. The decentralisation of the market allows the show of information thru prices and the

23.calculation of equations is made by the people who need to calculate x for y purpose specifically. Hayek on the other hand also questions if the people can decide on what is to be produced at any given time. The market allows for a real time information transfer that adapts.

24. It is for these reasons post-capitalism is seen as impossible to sustain. This is wrong, and the answer is to organise society as a cybernetic feedback loop. This is made with the help of supercomputers, the internet and even AI.

25. How does it look then? Well to put it simply it is a centrally planned economy that sets targets based on rough estimates of what people need( we still have the info on broadly how much people consume of x and how much y is produced) but the inputs and outputs are

26.updated in real time. Instead of an actual market we are using fast internet and price clearing to adjust prices( measured in labour time)based on supply and demand.The price clearing is a thing in neoclassical economics that was used as a tool by the polish economist Oscar L

27.The Lang model is basically using a soviet style central planning buro to create the perfect market. We talked about why neoclassicism is wrong but emulating the market mechanism while using non circulating currency allows for updating the "price" of things in order to deal

28.problems of miscalculation overproduction and so on. While also eliminating private ownership, the profit motive and so on. This system can only be improved by things like AI that will automate it even more and thus escaping the non reproduction problem of soviet socialism.