Thread by @zannolin, Okay, after today’s streams my tl is crammed with people shouting all [...]

Okay, after today’s streams my tl is crammed with people shouting all manner of bullshit and I am frankly very tired, so I’m here to say my piece about tubbo, trauma, and apologists.

This is going to be a bit lengthy and rambly, so I apologize in advance.

/dsmp, LONG THREAD!

First, I know a lot of people here on mcyttwt use the term “apologist” in a joking and lighthearted manner, the same way a lot of people say “my fav did nothing wrong” as a joke. But there are also people who legitimately fight over this and are actual apologists, and

that’s something I try to avoid because personally it rubs me the wrong way.

Here’s why:

No one on the dsmp is free of blame. Every character in the story has royally fucked up in some way or another, has done something that can be seen as irredeemable or just plain bad,

and you can’t just explain it away as they were the good guy and someone else was the bad guy. Even in instances where there is a clear-cut wrong and right side, the entire dsmp is painted in shades of grey. The right thing is often done for the wrong reasons, or vice versa.

There is a LOT of ends justifying the means. If you try to sweep the bad things a character has done under the rug, not only are you doing the character dirty and erasing an entire dimension to their personality and lore; but also you are doing a disservice to the role-play story

itself because it’s a brilliantly constructed narrative that addresses the way trauma impacts decisions and emotions and often causes lines to be blurred to the point of obscurity.

Let me explain.

I’m going to use The Magnus Archives (a podcast) as an example here, because

there seems to be a strangely large overlap between that fandom and mcyt, but you don’t need to know anything about it to follow along.

Basically, TMA is a horror podcast where every single character has been deeply traumatized (the main character literally serves an eldritch

fear god that lives off of other people’s trauma) and every single character has done shitty things.

And here’s the thing about the shitty things they have done: the trauma colors their actions. It influences them. When you’ve gone through trauma — and please note

that I am not a psychologist or an expert on this, I’m just explaining as best I can and you should take what I say with a grain of salt as I am speaking from more of a literary than a medical standpoint right now — it impacts every part of your life, really.

You may not realize it but it changes the way you think and act, oftentimes, and it will influence the things you do without you even realizing it. Trauma colors your judgment and your actions and ultimately spreads to influence the people around you because of it.

An example: in TMA, the main character becomes deeply paranoid and distrustful because of the influence of an entity that’s stalking him, and because of the way he was terrorized in a previous season. Because of this, he lashes out and isolates himself,

which leads to other characters getting angry and even hurt, and eventually dying.

You can see WHY the mc isolates himself and treats everyone the way he does; you were there for the things he went through. But just because you know the reasoning doesn’t justify the actions.

The fact remains that it was a shitty thing to do, and he has to take some portion of the blame. Trauma explains but does not excuse. Someone can be shitty to you because they’ve had bad experiences in the past but that doesn’t mean you deserve to be treated that way.

What’s so fascinating and compelling about TMA, and also the dsmp, is that every character has suffered and been traumatized, and every character has done horrible things. Even the heroes. Even the “good guys”. Some characters have done worse things than others, but no one

character is completely redeemable and free of blame. The dsmp is just like that.

Still with me? Okay good, let’s elaborate.

As an example, my all time favorite subject: Wilbur’s character. As times goes on, we are seeing more and more that wilbur was RIGHT about l’manberg.

It WAS a special place, but that place as he imagined it and dream of is gone, and has been for a while. because power corrupts, no matter what, and I’m not going to get into that narrative right now, but the more you look at it and the more the story progresses, we begin

to realize that he was actually largely correct in blowing up l’manberg. But! Here’s the thing. He was also wrong in doing so and should not have done it because he took the choice into his own hands and completely stripped everyone else of their say, of their freedom of choice,

which is somewhat dehumanizing.

These are the people who fought and bled for l’manberg and who love it just as much as you do, who LIVE there, and you decided that you are the only one with any right to decide what happens to it? What gave you that right?

nothing.

Nothing but perceived power and hubris. So he was right, but he was wrong. It’s morally grey, and very complicated, and you cannot excuse him of the blame in this situation. Whether he was right or wrong, people were hurt, people were traumatized, and in a way, it’s still his

fault l’manberg exists and continues to grow corrupt at all. (do you really think they would be fighting so hard for it now if not out of a desperate underlying fear and desire to be UNlike him? wilbur was wrong to blow up l'manberg, to them; therefore it must be RIGHT to keep

l'manberg, never mind that perhaps his REASONING was right, no? but I digress. another topic for another meta in another time.)

I can see why wilbur blew it up, I can understand his thought process. Insane or no, he was paranoid from previous betrayals,

and he had watched power chew up and spit out not just himself but others as well. He felt like everyone was leaving him, and perhaps justified it as destroying the last thing he had before it could be taken from him.

I don’t want to do a massive psychoanalysis right now but

the more you think about it, the more it makes sense.His thought process /makes sense/ and you can clearly see the lines from traumatic events for his character to the actions he took, but they are still inexcusable, yes?

Do you follow?

Now I want to talk about tubbo for a bit, because people are either being really rough on him, or being apologists, serious or no, and guys….sigh. I get a lot of you are younger or just joking but I just want to put it out there that by being “apologists” and fighting

with each other, y’all are passing up golden opportunities for insightful analysis and thoughtful discussions on characters’ motivations and potential ways the story could go. Lighten up, have some critical thought! And this isn’t to say that none of you do,

I see your metas and your threads and your banger tweets. But I also see a lot of fighting, and a lot of “they literally didn’t do anything wrong”, and it’s frankly tiring.

Okay. tubbo.

First off, that’s a kid.

That’s a child who has been shoved into a position of power he’s not ready for, after going through multiple wars, multiple betrayals, and a public execution. I can’t even begin to fathom what it’s like for him. Wilbur went through many similar things, and you know what he did?

He snapped and blew up a fucking country. Tubbo? Tubbo is simply trying to do what’s right. That’s something you guys have got to remember; tubbo is trying to do the right thing.

so many of the characters on the dsmp are trying to do the right thing, and ONCE AGAIN this doesn’t mean that everything they’re doing is okay, but it’s something you do need to factor in, especially in tubbo’s case.

He never asked for the presidency,

he never asked to be constantly reminded that he isn’t anyone’s first choice for the job.

He’s trying to do his best but he’s been put in an impossible situation what with Tommy’s exile, where he had a choice between going to war, this time with no technoblade on their side,

no ace in the hole, and banishing his friend. His friend who admittedly fucked up. He has people all the time comparing him to the former dictator, who, by the way, publicly executed him.

(Do you all forget schlatt traumatized tubbo just as much as he did everyone else?)

He has the pressure of an entire nation on his shoulders and he doesn’t have a single strong example to follow because both of his predecessors were shit presidents. Sorry wilbur, I love you, but it’s true. He has a corrupt cabinet, uncaring citizens, and a tyrant demanding

justice for petty wrongdoing at every turn. because he’s the president, he gets blamed for everything, and he also has to be present and careful all the time, lest he say or do something that causes trouble or sets a bad example. bc tubbo legitimately wants to be a good leader.

Now I probably sound like an apologist huh? Well here’s the thing. Tubbo did not deserve to be called a monster by Tommy, and he was actually justified in exiling Tommy, yes, in the same way that wilbur was justified in blowing up l’manberg —

it was right, but it still took away the rights of others. Maybe it was for the good of others, or perceived to be, but it was also all about the good of the individual (specifically dream, in this case) and either way it was an impossible situation and I think we often forget

we should be placing an equal amount of blame on dream for making it happen in the first place.

I digress.

So, tubbo didn’t deserve any of this, no. but also? In some ways, he IS acting like schlatt.

Which can be attributed to trauma, or the lack of role model, or the pressure from his cabinet.

Him exiling Tommy was ultimately pandering to dream, no matter if he had much of a choice or not. And no matter what you say, the butcher army and technoblade’s botched execution

were NOT justice.

Yes, quackity and the cabinet led him into that, but keep in mind that he openly lied to technoblade about a fair trial and justice; he allowed his cabinet to run rampant, likely for fear of being compared to a dictator again;

he stood by as an innocent animal was threatened; and he said (I’m paraphrasing here) that it would be nice for someone ELSE to know what it was like to be publicly executed for a change.

Again, trauma explains but does not justify.

Just because you were publicly executed doesn’t mean other people should be. And please note I’m not saying tubbo is the single one to blame here; everyone in the butcher army holds responsibility for this. The whole thing was spectacularly fucked up.

But he took part, and you can’t excuse that like it was nothing. and I’m not saying Tubbo’s the bad guy; I’m saying he’s fucked up just like every other character.

And I’m saying that right now he’s on the antagonistic side because we see the story from Tommy’s perspective,

and right now Tommy feels betrayed and hurt seeing the things tubbo has done that he doesn’t agree with.

Because here’s my big point, I guess, and it’s taken a while to get here so this feels a bit anticlimactic.

By saying tubbo didn’t do anything wrong, you are ignoring the corruption of the government (and by extension, tubbo himself, be that through his cabinet or his decisions) which is a longstanding plot point and arc in the dsmp.

By saying wilbur didn’t do anything wrong, you’re ignoring the inherent wrongness of stripping people of their freedom of choice. Freedom was an ideal l’manberg was founded on, especially freedom from tyranny, and wilbur was a tyrant in those last moments.

By saying tommy didn’t do anything wrong, you’re ignoring the fact that he was failing to consider the consequences of his actions /as they impacted others/. Tubbo called Tommy selfish, and he was right —

not because of the discs (well, yes, but not the point) but because he was only thinking of himself, and thinking he was only risking himself when he was putting others on the line as well and trying to ignore it.

I could go on. I could do this for every single character on the dsmp who has participated in the plot, because everyone has fucked up. And that’s honestly the beauty of it, because where’s the complexity and turmoil and emotional depth in perfect characters?

Superheroes like superman literally had to be given a weakness because if a character is perfect, they suck ass. They’re boring as all hell. There’s no motivation or complexity or depth. There’s a reason antiheroes are wildly popular.

What I’m trying to say can be condensed to this, mostly:

It’s OKAY to like characters who have done bad things. You don’t have to ignore them and pretend your favorite is perfect, and you most certainly shouldn’t try to say they are so you can feel better about yourself

or try to win an argument.

Because guess what? Everyone on this earth has done bad things. We’ve all fucked up. That’s why the dsmp is such a fabulous storyline: it has realistic character development, which makes it a good story for a lot of reasons.

Once again, it’s OKAY to like characters who have done bad things. The problem arises when you try to dismiss those things out of hand. Instead of being an apologist, maybe take a step back and analyze your fav’s behavior, ask yourself why they do what they do.

See if you can pinpoint moments in the storyline that shed light on it, and if there are none….start headcanoning, discussing it with your friends. Hell, start predicting! If there’s no story reason yet, maybe it’s going to be addressed in the future.

Discussion is so good and has brought me many friendships, so I guess I just really hope that people will be more open to it, rather than just fighting and feeling a need to apologize for their favorite character.

Don’t dismiss the ways they’ve fucked up; use them as a springboard for meta and character analysis! It’s fun and interesting, I promise, and people love to read it.

Anyways. I'm sorry this was so long, I'm just very very tired of the arguments and rampant dismissal of shit on the tl and wanted to throw in my two cents so it would stop knocking around in my head. thanks for reading!!

/END

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