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Excellent article, which should be shown to people who protest about the Occupation- and it should be pointed out the debate took place well before the 1967 War, when the West Bank was annexed by Jordan and Gaza was occupied by Egypt. https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/herzog-toynbee-1961?fbclid=IwAR0dmptKrID6mCmlOoiggTeREXRwPXDGnBlxONrUX1WBZPqxnhwG6qYUDbE
Also worth noting that Yaacov Herzog was born in Dublin and was son of the Chief Rabbi of Ireland, who became Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi of the British Mandate of Palestine and of Israel.
"Herzog then added one group that Toynbee had omitted: “Do you agree that there were also Arab
"Herzog then added one group that Toynbee had omitted: “Do you agree that there were also Arab
massacres of Jewish civilians?” Herzog made reference to such cases, asking, “Were these also in the category of Nazi atrocities? And if so, why don’t you say that both sides did things in such a category? Why do you choose us? Why do you single us out? Why don’t you write of
Britain and of almost every country in the world according to your own definition?” Very good point by Herzog: this should be shown to people who claim that the Israelis committed "ethnic cleansing" in the 1948 War. And another point- I've never seen anyone who makes such a claim
ever mention that at the end of the 1948 War Jordan annexed East Jerusalem and the West Bank, and Egypt illegally occupied Gaza. Both expelled the Jewish residents and displaced thousands of Palestinians- committing ethnic cleansing.
"Today, the understanding of the Jewish state that Herzog conveyed—a normal state with normal problems—is almost entirely absent from the public discourse. For many of its supporters, Israel must be defended absolutely as an unassailable island of moral rectitude, an exception
to the rule of human error and imperfection. It never commits war crimes, and it seldom makes mistakes. Israel’s critics, by contrast, often imagine the Jewish state as heir to the Third Reich and a uniquely evil blight on the face of the Middle East. There is no depravity to
which this “Zionazi” regime will not stoop, and no crime too lurid for it to commit. In other words, Israel is either superhuman or subhuman." I disagree about the claim that for "many" of its supporters Israel never commits war crimes and seldom makes mistakes.
Many supporters of Israel recognise that heavy force was used by both sides in the 1948 War. I've read pro Israel books that criticize the Lebanon War and call it Israel's Vietnam. Many supporters of the Palestinians seem to view the Palestinians absolutely as an unassailable
group of moral rectitude that never commits war crimes, and seldom makes mistakes. I've pointed out to some that Abbas has stated that turning down the 1947 UN Plan was a historic mistake, and they responded virulently that of course the Palestinians turned down the Plan, falsely
claiming that it gave the Jews the majority of Palestine or using language like "Would you accept a plan that lets people take over your house"?
"Those who insist that the Jewish state is immaculately conceived and governed inevitably fuel the disillusionment that bolsters those
"Those who insist that the Jewish state is immaculately conceived and governed inevitably fuel the disillusionment that bolsters those
who portray the Zionist project as demonic. And those who cast Israel as a regime governed by fascist criminals provoke the very defensiveness that leads others to defend Israel in all circumstances—even when it should not be defended. Within this context, it becomes almost
impossible to have a normal conversation about Israel or its problems."
I recognise this personally. Seeing many tweets that accuse Israel of being demonic from its inception I've felt I have to defend Israel and Israelis. I don't see Israel as perfect- no country is.
I recognise this personally. Seeing many tweets that accuse Israel of being demonic from its inception I've felt I have to defend Israel and Israelis. I don't see Israel as perfect- no country is.
No country is always morally wise & completely just in its actions. I wish more people would see Israel as a country that has to contend with other countries politically, financially & diplomatically & as a country that like all others has to contend with issues in its society.
