Thread by @ScottishMongol, I decided to watch the Hobbit trilogy and my biggest takeaway is [...]

I decided to watch the Hobbit trilogy and my biggest takeaway is that I want to read the book again.

They're really not bad films; things start to break down in the second film but only one I would call truly unwatchable is the Battle of Five Armies.

The movies suffer overall from an attempt to turn a fairy tale for children into an EPIC FANTASY that matches the same tone as Lord of the Rings, but turns into a pale imitation that reduces its own source material.

The decision to make three movies also harms all of them - especially the third one, which seems to have been the most rushed and has the worst production values. Of course, this was a studio decision, as were several other...ill-conceived choices.

I really don't blame Peter Jackson; he was handed a raw deal. By the third film it feels like they were phoning it in, but to be fair they didn't have the time to put in actual effort.

Also Azog the Defiler is a really lame villain. The story didn't need an overarching antagonist so his presence is extraneous and contributes to the problems I mentioned earlier.

I think that's the general stuff, but let's break this down.

The opening narration is pointless and is our first obvious attempt to ape the style of LotR; this narration could have been moved to later on, to greater effect.

Some good stuff: Martin Freeman and Ian McKellan have wonderful chemistry together. Easily the high point of the series. Everything from their meeting to Bilbo running off on an adventure is solid storytelling.

I do like the Dwarves although regrettably they get less attention as the series goes on, except for Thorin and Fili and Kili (and that FUCKING SUBPLOT but we'll get to that). Any scene that focuses on Bilbo and the party is a step up imo, the films should've had more of this.

Also Thorin, Fili, and Kili look like male models. I'm pretty sure Dwarf women have bigger beards than that.

Radagast is lame. The White Council business is one of the more justifiable additions to the story, but imo they don't quite stick the landing. We'll get to that, too!

But Radagast especially falls flat. What were they THINKING?

I know none of this is anything other people haven't said before, but eh.

Roast Mutton, though, is mostly good. Like I said, when the focus is on Bilbo and the Dwarves, things improve.

"Do not speak to me of Radagast. It's his excessive consumption of mushrooms, they've addled his brain."

Little known fact, in addition to breeding orcs, Saruman was also breeding narcs.

Scene with the giants: not great. It goes on too long and doesn't add anything.

If there's one thing the Rankin/Bass cartoon version does better than this, it's that the songs fucking slap

This is totally beside the point but while we're talking about the Rankin/Bass version, their Return of the King movie fucking sucks except for "Where There's a Whip There's a Way"

Anyway, Riddles in the Dark? Pure gold, Andy Serkis knocks it out of the part again and he and Martin Freeman work so well off each other, Freeman really was a great choice for Bilbo.

Unfortunately the movie is mostly downhill from there, we get into the problems with Azog and so forth.

Also there's sort of a big problem with Thorin accepting with Bilbo at the end of the film, which is that there's not really anywhere for Bilbo's relationship with the dwarves to go from there.

Yeah in the book they start respecting Bilbo a little, but that's because he shows skill in escaping Goblintown, but he doesn't really come into his own until he saves them from the Spiders and then the Wood Elves.

I also don't like how Gandalf just casts "Summon Giant Eagles". One of the things I like about the book is that the Wargs and Eagles and so on are their own cultures, they're not pets or tame animals.

Honestly in the book all the factions are pretty morally grey; the Woodsmen hate the Eagles and the Eagles only help the party because they hate the Goblins. The Wargs and Goblins are allies. The Wood Elves don't really get along with anyone and are kind of dickish, and so forth.

Moving on to the second movie: Beorn was pretty good although I dont think we got enough of him (they trimmed down his role in the Battle of Five Armies significantly, which is lame). The production design in this scene is really, really good, though!

Most of the stuff in Mirkwood is good as long as it focuses on Bilbo and the Dwarves but again this could've gotten more time instead of...well.

You all know what doesn't work. Tauriel, Legolas, the bullshit romantic subplot with Kili, those are all garbage only put in to pad the runtime. Nothing against Tauriel by herself, but she and her subplot really feel like they were forced in by studio fiat.

I think the changes they made to Bard the Bowman are kind of dumb. Like, they added this whole subplot/motivation thing with his kids and the Master of Laketown and its all pretty pointless, I get that they wanted to flesh him out since he does uh, kill the dragon.

But it feels kind of cheesy in my opinion, Bard really doesn't need to be a complex character.

Also they changed the fact that he's an actual bowman? Like in the book, the Black Arrow is just like, Bard's lucky arrow, which is cool, but they made the Black Arrows into a whole like, special ballista bolt? And the subplot revolves around that and Bard's weird motivation?

So it's kind of a pointless change and I don't like it. The Master of Laketown and his shitty assistant are also cringe, and FUCKING ALFRED survives until the next movie where uh...we'll get to THAT.

The stuff with Bilbo and Smaug was gold (heh). Best scene in the movie and the only truly great one. Unfortunately that means this movie has less going for it than the first one, which had at least three great scenes in it.

And finally, the whole sequence with Smaug and the Dwarves is like, weird and dumb and only exists to pad out the runtime.

Again, not really any cutting observations but I watched these movies and dammit I'm going to talk about them.

And that includes the third one, which sucks and definitely suffers the most from the decision to split the movies into three.

Oh I forgot to mention: as I said, the White Council is maybe the most justifiable addition but Gandalf didn't really have much to do in his two scenes.

Anyway, the Battle of Five Armies.

First off, can we talk about these armies?

In the book, the armies are Men, Elves, Dwarves, Goblins, and Wargs (remember, the Wargs are their own, intelligent race, not pets!).

In the film it's...Wood Elves, Men, Dwarves, Orcs (Azog's Orcs, not the Goblins!) and...Other Orcs. They literally counted the Orcs twice!?

And like, the Goblins in the book were mad that Thorin and Co. had killed the Great Goblin! They had a surprisingly human motive, not some complex plot by Sauron and Azog and whatever! But no Goblins to be seen here, except a few...idk, auxilliaries?

Next, the Wood Elves. They don't look like...Wood Elves? They're all heavily armored, I thought the Wood Elves were elite skirmishers, not heavy infantry!

Next, the Men. The "army" of Men amounts to...a single battalion, highlighted here in the middle of the Wood Elves' formation.

I'm getting kind of nitpicky but there's really not much to say with this movie otherwise lol. It was really boring and hard to watch.

Also wow, this CGI is really bad. You can really tell the third movie had the most rushed production, it makes the whole film really, really hard to watch, which isn't helped by the battle being made so loooong and unnecessarily complicated.

Finally the Dwarves. You'd think in a movie that needs to add so much padding, they would have found the time to give Dain Ironfoot a bit more character, but they don't even mention that he becomes king at the end!

Beorn gets trimmed down as well, which is interesting because in the book, HE kills the commander of the Goblin armies and then saves Thorin! So in an overly padded movies, it sucks that Beorn and Dain are the ones who actually lost some attention lol

Also why is Dain completely CGI, it looks fake as shit. This whole battle looks and feels like a game of Total War: Third Age lmao

So, that aside, what's up with the plot? Uhh, the stuff with Thorin and Co. as usual are the high points (and an early high point at that) but I think they overdo it with Thorin's "dragon sickness" a little bit.

Like what, Thorin can't succumb to his character flaws of pride and greed, it has to be a curse?

Honestly it reminds me of what they did to Denethor in the LotR trilogy, hmm

The whole battle in the movie is...too complex. Like, they needed to add all this stuff to justify it taking up half of a whole-ass third movie.

...which I guess makes it a half-ass movie lmao

Honestly I think I just dont care about the Lakemen. They made Bard into just "the Dad", the gave him some kids who are just "the Kids" to give him some pointless extra motivation and an arc, I guess? It doesn't feel like it ever pays off.

Add in a bunch of generic peasants and FUCKING ALFRED (who is "the Cringe" and destroys every scene he is in, which is almost all of them with Bard) and the whole subplot feels like a total wash.

Thranduil and the Wood Elves literally nope out in the middle of the battle and leave everyone else to fucking die lmao, I know the Wood Elves in the book are kind of selfish but this is just outright character assassination

I guess now we're down to the Battle of 2.5 Armies, by the way.

And then Thranduil COMES BACK so he can wrap up Tauriel and Legolas' plot lines. Thanks, dick.

The only somewhat decent scenes in the movie are where Thorin reconciles with Bilbo before he dies, and then Bilbo subsequent scene with Gandalf. The ending scenes are admittedly also good, but they'd be better if they weren't at the end of this movie.

Also this battle didn't have a single Warg in it lol

The LotR trilogy, that was a labor of passion, everyone was giving it their all cause they really loved and believed in that series. But the Hobbit films? This was a studio-mandated cash grab, it was rushed, everyone ended up phoning it in and you can tell.

So I think thats why this movie is really boring and cheesy, because its a totally standard Hollywood film that got cranked out to make money.

Anyway, this has been an overly-long and mostly pointless thread. Much like the movies themselves, amirite?

Thank you, goodnight!

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