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X : Are you socialist?
Me : Do you like my doctrine table?
X : Yes. Why is that relevant?
Me : Focus on user needs, challenge assumptions, distribute power ... it doesn't say "focus on profit above all else". It's a socialist manifesto. Good business is socialism, always was.
Me : Do you like my doctrine table?
X : Yes. Why is that relevant?
Me : Focus on user needs, challenge assumptions, distribute power ... it doesn't say "focus on profit above all else". It's a socialist manifesto. Good business is socialism, always was.
X : On that basis you'd say that Amazon is a socialist company?
Me : How many times does Amazon mention profit or opportunity or revenue or shareholders in its leadership principles?
X : I don't know.
Me : None - https://www.amazon.jobs/en/principles - did you not ever wonder why?
Me : How many times does Amazon mention profit or opportunity or revenue or shareholders in its leadership principles?
X : I don't know.
Me : None - https://www.amazon.jobs/en/principles - did you not ever wonder why?
X : Are you saying that as companies grow they go through these phases of development?
Me : No. The phases build on each other, even within a phase principles build on each others. It's simply the order where you start ... fix phase I first, then phase II etc.
Me : No. The phases build on each other, even within a phase principles build on each others. It's simply the order where you start ... fix phase I first, then phase II etc.
X : Amazon is one of the most capitalist companies there is, look at the industries it has hit.
Me : Do you mean, look at the rent extracting industries that have been sitting on their laurels that Amazon has provided new services in which are focused on end users?
Me : Do you mean, look at the rent extracting industries that have been sitting on their laurels that Amazon has provided new services in which are focused on end users?
X : I don't get it.
Me : In the socialist mindset, the market is a valuable tool in helping to meet the needs of all society. The market has contexts where it works, in other contexts other tools need to be used. In the capitalist mindset the market is society.
Me : In the socialist mindset, the market is a valuable tool in helping to meet the needs of all society. The market has contexts where it works, in other contexts other tools need to be used. In the capitalist mindset the market is society.
X : Socialism is about central planning.
Me : No, that's communism. Central planning is a useful tool in specific context, in other contexts the market is a more useful tool. Look at how China plays it.
Me : No, that's communism. Central planning is a useful tool in specific context, in other contexts the market is a more useful tool. Look at how China plays it.
X : I just don't see it.
Me : That's ok. If you live in the US, you're less likely to see it. The enablement systems (in this case education) diffuse a particular narrative of economic thought that (staying in Western philosophy) doesn't even fit with Europe, let alone China.
Me : That's ok. If you live in the US, you're less likely to see it. The enablement systems (in this case education) diffuse a particular narrative of economic thought that (staying in Western philosophy) doesn't even fit with Europe, let alone China.
... so back in 2015 when I used to show people in the US that China Gov operates as the world's largest venture capital firm then the response would often be "what???!" ... it uses the market as tool. Nothing more. We're all trapped by the stories that we are told.
The US is amazing but at its heart it is socialism (an ethics of care) but it has been told that such socialism is communism and its political system is anything but that. This sort of worked whilst it was seen as the world's success but the distortion has become more visible.
This distortion seems to lead to bizarre situations where "72% of Voters Want Government-Run Healthcare Plan" but even "Centrist House Democrats Attack Medicare for All" - https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/11/06/centrist-house-democrats-attack-medicare-all-fox-news-poll-shows-72-voters-want
... or stories about how Republicans don't care about poor people but when I had dinner with a staunch Republican family then all they talked about was the plight of the poor and how things had to change.
X : I think you're wrong.
Me : That's ok. I'm often told that I'm wrong. I just want you to think and talk about it. Whilst you're at, it might be a good time to start having that discussion about the balance of We (an ethics of care) vs Me (an ethics of choice) in society.
Me : That's ok. I'm often told that I'm wrong. I just want you to think and talk about it. Whilst you're at, it might be a good time to start having that discussion about the balance of We (an ethics of care) vs Me (an ethics of choice) in society.
X : China is a capitalist country.
Me : Lol, you only say that because it is being seen as more successful. When it was seen as less successful you used to call it "communist". China has been using the same approaches set out by Deng Xiaoping in the 1970s.
Me : Lol, you only say that because it is being seen as more successful. When it was seen as less successful you used to call it "communist". China has been using the same approaches set out by Deng Xiaoping in the 1970s.
X : So socialism is giving people what they want?
Me : No. Want is not the same as Need. Wants and desire open up an entire world of manipulation. Welcome to consumerism.
Me : No. Want is not the same as Need. Wants and desire open up an entire world of manipulation. Welcome to consumerism.
X : I don't get your point? I'm confused.
Me : Good. Go back and look at the doctrine table again. These are universally useful principles. They are part of socialism, a business can run on these principles. What you're missing is the distinction, the intent ...
Me : Good. Go back and look at the doctrine table again. These are universally useful principles. They are part of socialism, a business can run on these principles. What you're missing is the distinction, the intent ...
On one path (green line), the intent is all about us, the we, our need (as a collective) to control our environment, to meet our needs, to succeed as a collective and all that depends upon doctrine when we are in competition with other collectives ... but ...
... the other path (blue) is all about the individual, our agency, our choice, our desires. What we've somehow created is "collectives of individuals" where the "Me" dominates but that collective still depends upon doctrine in competition with others ...
... so doctrine won't help you distinguish between socialism and capitalism. It's as much socialism as capitalism. What you need to understand is the intent of the system ... desires, ethics of choice, individualism vs needs, ethics of care and collectivism.
X : Why confuse me by talking about doctrine as socialism?
Me : Because it is. Because some have been taught to associate things with that word. At the heart is one debate - the ethics of choice, of desires, of individualism vs the ethics of care, of needs and of collectivism.
Me : Because it is. Because some have been taught to associate things with that word. At the heart is one debate - the ethics of choice, of desires, of individualism vs the ethics of care, of needs and of collectivism.
X : So, it's one or the other?
Me : No, we're a bit of both. It's that balance between the Me and the We that matters. It's why we need that conversation about the balance not debates on socialism vs capitalism and all the associations and narratives that come with it.
Me : No, we're a bit of both. It's that balance between the Me and the We that matters. It's why we need that conversation about the balance not debates on socialism vs capitalism and all the associations and narratives that come with it.
X : You could have said that at the beginning?
Me : You opened the conversation by asking whether I'm a socialist. I'm trying to show you that it's not the important question nor the important debate we should be having.
Me : You opened the conversation by asking whether I'm a socialist. I'm trying to show you that it's not the important question nor the important debate we should be having.
The tribes are too entrenched, the stories are too long told that you will never get anywhere if you start the conversation with socialism vs capitalism. You have to find a different way, and you could do that by starting to talk about the balance between Me and We.
X : Are you talking about a new deal?
Me : Democracy, a New Deal, Franklin D. Roosevelt ... now we're talking.
Me : Democracy, a New Deal, Franklin D. Roosevelt ... now we're talking.
X : How bad is the distortion?
Me : A democrat asking the Supreme Court to make it impossible for any foreigner to sue any company for any harm done to them, up to and including kidnapping and enslavement?
X: That's not true.
Me : Alas - https://newrepublic.com/article/160481/neal-katyal-depravity-big-law
Me : A democrat asking the Supreme Court to make it impossible for any foreigner to sue any company for any harm done to them, up to and including kidnapping and enslavement?
X: That's not true.
Me : Alas - https://newrepublic.com/article/160481/neal-katyal-depravity-big-law
... I'll let that sink in under a motto of "child slaves, hey ... it happens. It's just business".
This is why this conversation of the balance of Me and We matters so much.
This is why this conversation of the balance of Me and We matters so much.
X : You're very political.
Me : Ah, the reserved phrase for those who don't like what they hear. I'm not trying to be political - DNC vs GOP or Capitalism vs Communism vs Socialism - what I'm trying to do is to get people to think about the underlying issues and the context.
Me : Ah, the reserved phrase for those who don't like what they hear. I'm not trying to be political - DNC vs GOP or Capitalism vs Communism vs Socialism - what I'm trying to do is to get people to think about the underlying issues and the context.
If we don't, we will sleepwalk further into a dystopian nightmare where in the midst of a flood, the ability of others to pay your self driving car to pull over so that they can escape will end up determining you and your family's likelihood of surviving - https://twitter.com/PrivacyAttorney/status/1335989286521356288
X : It's capitalist solution to the trolley problem!
Me : Oh yes and those values (of different collectives) are being embedded into the training systems of AI as we speak.
Me : Oh yes and those values (of different collectives) are being embedded into the training systems of AI as we speak.
