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“But what do we know about how the immunity from a prior infection compares with the protection given by the new vaccines? And what if you have already had Covid — is it safe to be vaccinated? We asked experts to weigh in on the latest evidence”
“The short answer: We don’t know. But Covid-19 vaccines have predictably prevented illness, and they are a far safer bet, experts said”.
Really? Where’s the evidence that these vaccines “have predictably prevented illness”.
I’ve seen only reduction in mild non-specific symptoms.
Really? Where’s the evidence that these vaccines “have predictably prevented illness”.
I’ve seen only reduction in mild non-specific symptoms.
“Natural immunity...is fortunately quite strong. A vast majority of people infected produce at least some antibodies & immune cells that can fight off the infection. And the evidence so far suggests that this protection will persist for years, preventing serious illness...”.
“But there is a “massive dynamic range” in that immune response, with a 200-fold difference in antibody levels”.
This is disingenuous. Protection against viruses is mostly mediated via T-cells. Antibodies do play a role but not a central one.
This is disingenuous. Protection against viruses is mostly mediated via T-cells. Antibodies do play a role but not a central one.
“In people who are only mildly ill, the immune protection that can prevent a second infection may wane within a few months. “Those people might benefit more from the vaccine than others would,” said Bill Hanage, an epidemiologist ...”
The evidence doesn’t bear this out.
The evidence doesn’t bear this out.
Those who’ve been infected are then immune. Of the 750million people WHO estimated had been infected, virtually no one has been reinfected. 0.0001% is 750 people. I don’t think there’s been that many. So 99.9999% didn’t get reinfected, so far.
“The experts were unanimous in their answer: Covid-19 is by far the more dangerous option”.
I disagree. The vast majority of people under 60y (possibly older) are at lower risk of severe outcomes including death than they are from ‘flu in an unvaccinated state. We don’t yet...
I disagree. The vast majority of people under 60y (possibly older) are at lower risk of severe outcomes including death than they are from ‘flu in an unvaccinated state. We don’t yet...
...know what the safety profile of any vaccine will be long term (short term safety is surely acceptable as MHRA approved it, though data isn’t yet available). No data exists about long term safety & this is new technology. Might be fine but we just don’t yet know.
“In a study of more than 3,000 people, ages 18 to 34, who were hospitalized for Covid, 20 percent required intensive care and 3 percent died”.
This stat isn’t informative because we’re not told from how many infections these 3000 arose. It might be millions.
This stat isn’t informative because we’re not told from how many infections these 3000 arose. It might be millions.
“Covid vaccines, in contrast, carry little known risk. They have been tested in tens of thousands of people with no serious side effects — at least so far. “Once you start vaccinating millions, you might find very, very rare events,” Dr. Hanage said. “But we have to know that...
... they are very, very rare and much more rare than the adverse events associated with natural infection.”
Again, this isn’t correct. It might be his belief, but it’s not evidence-based because there’s no data on long term safety profile. I’ve no evidence either of any long-...
Again, this isn’t correct. It might be his belief, but it’s not evidence-based because there’s no data on long term safety profile. I’ve no evidence either of any long-...
...term safety issues. The point is, no one does. Until we do, categorical statements like this do us all a disservice.
“Dr. Moncef Slaoui, chief adviser to Operation Warp Speed, said up to 10 percent of participants in clinical trials for the vaccines had been infected with...
“Dr. Moncef Slaoui, chief adviser to Operation Warp Speed, said up to 10 percent of participants in clinical trials for the vaccines had been infected with...
... the virus without knowing it. Their immune responses to the vaccine are being analyzed, he said”.
This is interesting. Presumably he meant “before the trial began”? I wonder how he knows it’s 10%. Perhaps by measuring antibodies using high sensitivity methods? Note, this...
This is interesting. Presumably he meant “before the trial began”? I wonder how he knows it’s 10%. Perhaps by measuring antibodies using high sensitivity methods? Note, this...
...means over 4,000 people had been infected (either during the trial or before it, or a mix). That is context for the just over 100 *symptomatic **infections.
(*those used were so non-specific that they can result from infection by a scores of viruses & other conditions. My...
(*those used were so non-specific that they can result from infection by a scores of viruses & other conditions. My...
...point being such symptoms aren’t = covid19. **The measure was simply PCR positivity. Alone, that statement doesn’t prove infection. Confirmation using full length sequencing, PCR retest with different primers, use of other tests or infection of cells in culture would each...
...independently confirm infection but AFAIK none were used.
“If you’ve already had Covid-19, you can afford to wait awhile for the vaccine.
Studies from Dr. Pepper’s team and others have shown that the immune response evolves over the first few months after infection, but...
“If you’ve already had Covid-19, you can afford to wait awhile for the vaccine.
Studies from Dr. Pepper’s team and others have shown that the immune response evolves over the first few months after infection, but...
... everyone who has had Covid has some level of protection during that time”.
That’s consistent with human immunology.
““We didn’t see anybody who didn’t develop some sort of an immune response,” she said. “I don’t think those people need to rush out and go get the vaccine...
That’s consistent with human immunology.
““We didn’t see anybody who didn’t develop some sort of an immune response,” she said. “I don’t think those people need to rush out and go get the vaccine...
... in the same way that people who are highly susceptible really do.”
Again, as expected & reassuring information.
“The A.C.I.P., which makes recommendations to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention about vaccine distribution, said at a meeting on Wednesday that...
Again, as expected & reassuring information.
“The A.C.I.P., which makes recommendations to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention about vaccine distribution, said at a meeting on Wednesday that...
... people who had not been infected should get priority over those who contracted the virus in the past 90 days.
“At some point we’ll need to figure out whether 90 days is the right number,” Dr. Maldonado said. But for now, “people who have evidence of infection recently...
“At some point we’ll need to figure out whether 90 days is the right number,” Dr. Maldonado said. But for now, “people who have evidence of infection recently...
... should probably not be vaccinated at first in line because there’s so little vaccine available.”
This makes sense to me. I’d go further, based on the robust & durable immunity from infection by SARS in 2003-4, and recommend not vaccinating those we’re sure have been infected.
This makes sense to me. I’d go further, based on the robust & durable immunity from infection by SARS in 2003-4, and recommend not vaccinating those we’re sure have been infected.
I put up these extracts because there’s useful basic information about immunity & immunology that’s not necessarily everyday knowledge. My hope is it’ll stimulate thought & discussion & enables better decision making about vaccination. Asked what I’d do, I’d say I favour...
...offering it to those vulnerable to severe outcomes if infected, unless they’re confident they’ve previously been infected. We’re used to vaccines, and we can get blasé about them. But these have been developed at extreme speed & at least 2 use novel technology. Given the...
...level of risk to the younger cohort from the virus & my belief that the majority are now immune, I’m against wider rollout & am resolutely against coerced vaccination of any kind. It’s illegal & there isn’t a public health emergency justification.
@threadreaderapp unroll
