OK. Quick thread. https://twitter.com/MisterFirth/status/1333856699954974722

Lots of "this is a bad question" in response to this piece of student work.

But here's the thing.

This represents very very well like 87% of place value instruction in commercially published curriculum.

What digit is in the whatever place? is a question children are asked again and again and again.

You can answer that kind of question very very well and not understand the first thing about PLACE VALUE.

Which is counterintuitive I know.

But it's true. Many years of study here. Many years of reading and observing and learning.

Place value is about groups.

Think about 20.

Yes, there's a 2 in the tens place. But who cares?

What matters is that there is a 2 in the tens place for a reason.

There are 2 of something.

What are there 2 of?

Tens.

20 is 2 tens EXACTLY the same as it's twenty ones. And 200 tenths. And only a fraction of a hundred.

Place value is about groups and units and especially about moving between different units fluidly.

I've written about this. https://talkingmathwithkids.com/number/tens-again/

And a few more views of some similar ideas. https://talkingmathwithkids.com/?s=place+value 

My point is that "bad question" maybe suggests that THIS QUESTION could be fixed in order to not allow the kid in question to do the thing the kid did.

And yes, that's true. It could be.

But it wouldn't represent a move towards better place value instruction. It would still be a crappy question.

We could maybe puzzle-ify it. But it still wouldn't be a step forward.

I think it's OK to ask this question (or one like it). Fine.

I don't think it's OK to ONLY ask this kind of question.

So *I* say, celebrate this example of a kid creatively meeting a constraint.

As @Idil_A_ schooled us about earlier today, that's SMART! Let's laugh and celebrate and set about providing better place value instructional materials for teachers and children to use.

Link: https://twitter.com/Idil_A_/status/1333874557082611715

I've written about some of these things in other places, of course. Probably most extensively in the teacher guide for How Many?

https://www.stenhouse.com/content/how-many

"How Many?" has units and groups and re-unitizing built right in. If you spend some meaningful amount of time with a child and this book, you'll be working on place value ideas together.

And laughing.

(My promise to you on both of those, by the way. If you try it out and I'm wrong, let me know how I can make it right for you)

Oh. Sorry. Left a couple things hanging here.

Who is doing place value better?

Bridges from @MLCmath is doing it better.

I'm told Math Expressions is, but haven't gotten my hands on the materials. Karen Fuson's involvement there is a pretty rock solid endorsement.

I trust that @IllustrateMath will do it better, but those materials are still under development for elementary so I haven't seen them.

I have tremendous faith in @MathMinds to advocate for what's right over there, though.

[INSERT BIG AMERICAN PUBLISHER] Math is probably not doing it right.

@TpT_Official certainly isn't going to save you.

Googling "Common Core Place Value Worksheet" isn't gonna be helpful either.

How to learn more?

Study the good stuff (see recommendations and links up thread). Read Fosnot's "Young Mathematicians" book about with place value in the title. Read some CGI. Come back here and converse.