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OK, since I've been discussing this on a lot of other But Just Reach Out to Your Pet Fascists threads, here's a long Twitter thread regarding what I've learned about toxic assholes in communities.
First, personal experience! About eight years ago, a "friend" read my email, used what he found to spread a bunch of rumors about me, and used those rumors to...I'm honestly still not sure if his endgame was gaslighting me into sex or if he just got a hard-on from the situation.
It didn't succeed, because 90% of my other friends are awesome. But! At least one of the 10% chose to "confront" him in an understanding way, tell me that I should talk to him and he was just overreacting to my perceived moral turpitude because it hit his Parental Issues, etc.
And for various reasons, including me being scared of what dude knew, there was no movement to kick him out of social circles. A year-odd later, he emailed me all "I'm sorry, I never meant to hurt you, blah blah."
I told him, OK, well, I was shocked that you ever thought that was acceptable, but if you mind your own business for a year or so, we'll be good.
He did the same sort of Judge Frollo-y bullshit to three other people within six months.
He did the same sort of Judge Frollo-y bullshit to three other people within six months.
This is the most dramatic example, and the one I can speak to the most personally, but it's not the only one I've *seen*. I hang out in geek social circles, which means Geek Social Fallacies infest them.
I could name three or four people where the cycle went:
1. Person repeatedly or dramatically does a shitty thing.
2. Various people bring out Well They Have Problems/You Just Have To Understand/People Can Change/They're Actually a Good Person Deep Down.
1. Person repeatedly or dramatically does a shitty thing.
2. Various people bring out Well They Have Problems/You Just Have To Understand/People Can Change/They're Actually a Good Person Deep Down.
(Sometimes this comes with Shitty Person making a Big Dramatic Apology, sometimes not.)
3. Person does the shitty thing *AGAIN*.
4. Lather, rinse, fucking repeat.
3. Person does the shitty thing *AGAIN*.
4. Lather, rinse, fucking repeat.
Less personally, I've been active in various aspects of geekery since I was elevenish. When I was young, the GSFs were in full effect, which meant that just about every group had one Cat Piss Man and everyone just put up with him because He's Really a Good Guy.
Maybe his friends would gently hint about deodorant, or not looking down women's shirts. He'd either get really defensive or "try" for like a week.
I stopped going to cons in my twenties because, among other reasons, dealing with the 57 different manifestations of That Guy was just way too much trouble. Monster Camp in most LARPs, if I didn't go with friends, was a gauntlet of poor hygiene and diplomatically slapping hands.
At some point in the last decade or so, this changed. The problems aren't completely gone, especially when That Guy has some degree of fame to shield him, but...it's a *lot* better.
It's not better because people patiently sat Cat Piss Man down and held his hand until he got that hygiene is good and harassment is bad.
It's better because understanding that, or at least complying with it, became mandatory to most social circles.
It's better because understanding that, or at least complying with it, became mandatory to most social circles.
When three days of funk, Roman hands, and gross comments became grounds for getting kicked out of games or banned from cons, *most* CPMs learned. They reached out to the friends who'd patiently tried to explain, or Googled the basics.
And yeah, some doubled down and retreated to the chan boards, but they were always gonna do that.
If people are going to change--and I am, admittedly, a cynic about that in general--the vast majority do it because there are real consequences for not doing so.
If people are going to change--and I am, admittedly, a cynic about that in general--the vast majority do it because there are real consequences for not doing so.
And honestly, do I care about hearts and minds? No. This isn't fucking Valdemar.
I care that people stop normalizing obnoxious behavior and bigoted views. Because the hard-core fascists or bigots or Cat Piss Men are not going to see the light...
I care that people stop normalizing obnoxious behavior and bigoted views. Because the hard-core fascists or bigots or Cat Piss Men are not going to see the light...
...but if we call out their behavior as completely unacceptable, if we say that acting this way makes you a bad person, if we don't allow them in normal social spaces, the people who were on the fence will see that. And that will help.
Plus, we won't have them around at cons/holiday dinners/etc.
tl;dr: Shunning works. Deplatforming works. Understanding isn't always enablement, but 90% of the time, when not combined with consequences? It absolutely fucking is.
tl;dr: Shunning works. Deplatforming works. Understanding isn't always enablement, but 90% of the time, when not combined with consequences? It absolutely fucking is.
