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Let's talk about a stupid rule Nintendo has.
Ever wonder why don't Daisy, Wario and Waluigi appear outside party games? Why don't Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi characters appear outside of their series/games? Why don't Wario characters appear in any Mario game? Along other stuff
Ever wonder why don't Daisy, Wario and Waluigi appear outside party games? Why don't Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi characters appear outside of their series/games? Why don't Wario characters appear in any Mario game? Along other stuff
Basic answer is: Because Nintendo doesn't like stuff they didn't make it themselves, in-house. And they force everyone else to think the same way.
Okay so, you need to vizualize a pyramid:
Okay so, you need to vizualize a pyramid:
On the top of it is Nintendo EAD, aka the main Nintendo.
Below it is every other Nintendo division.
Then last are 3rd party studios, like Camelot, Alphadream, Intelligent Systems, Next Level Games, etc.
Below it is every other Nintendo division.
Then last are 3rd party studios, like Camelot, Alphadream, Intelligent Systems, Next Level Games, etc.
Nintendo EAD is the division that made almost every mainline game to date and every Mario Kart game, and also the first Luigi's Mansion and Yoshi's Island.
That's why you got E. Gadd, King Boo and recently Poochy appearing in many Mario games
That's why you got E. Gadd, King Boo and recently Poochy appearing in many Mario games
And why the same won't happen to Polterpup, Googi or Hellen Gravely.
And why Toadette gets to appear in main games too.
And why Toadette gets to appear in main games too.
Actually there are 2 mainline Mario games EAD didn't make: the Super Mario Land games.
Ever wonder why they're almost never referenced or acknowledged when the first Land game sold more than SMB3? That's why.
It's also why Daisy and Wario don't appear outside of the party games.
Ever wonder why they're almost never referenced or acknowledged when the first Land game sold more than SMB3? That's why.
It's also why Daisy and Wario don't appear outside of the party games.
Wario Land, WarioWare, Paper Mario, Mario & Luigi, Mario Party, Mario Tennis, Mario Golf, Mario Baseball, Mario Hoops, and all the other Mario games weren't made by EAD.
If you're wondering Waluigi was made by Camelot, also not EAD.
If you're wondering Waluigi was made by Camelot, also not EAD.
The rule makes so that any characters, places, or general "contents" from non-EPD games aren't allowed to be in any other Mario game.
This is why Paper Mario games can't have Daisy, Wario, Waluigi or Fawful, or why WarioWare can't have Wario Land stuff.
This is why Paper Mario games can't have Daisy, Wario, Waluigi or Fawful, or why WarioWare can't have Wario Land stuff.
There are some exceptions to this rule of course:
Like Daisy, Wario, Goomboss, the Star Spirits, Baby Peach, Baby Wario, Baby DK, Donkey Kong Jr., and all the Donkey Kong Country characters.
The only situation where this rule doesn't apply in general is in "general crossovers".
Like Daisy, Wario, Goomboss, the Star Spirits, Baby Peach, Baby Wario, Baby DK, Donkey Kong Jr., and all the Donkey Kong Country characters.
The only situation where this rule doesn't apply in general is in "general crossovers".
So like, the costumes in the first Super Mario Maker and in Super Smash Bros., because those are supposed to be universal crossovers.
But not in Mario Kart 8 for example, because Link, Isabelle, the villagers and the Inklings are just guests, MK8 isn't a "crossover game"
But not in Mario Kart 8 for example, because Link, Isabelle, the villagers and the Inklings are just guests, MK8 isn't a "crossover game"
Also, Zelda, Animal Crossing and Splatoon are all EAD too.
(And Rob too i guess)
(And Rob too i guess)
Daisy Wario and Waluigi are more of special cases since these 3 specific characters were kinda "adopted but not fully adopted just like half adopted" by EAD, it's how you get Daisy and Wario but nothing else from the Land games.
Just a note, i don't get DKC characters.
Why are they allowed? They're all from a 3rd party studio, an European 3rd party studio, yet 5 whole characters appeared in Mario Super Sluggers and many other games.
Like why?
Why are they allowed? They're all from a 3rd party studio, an European 3rd party studio, yet 5 whole characters appeared in Mario Super Sluggers and many other games.
Like why?
Anyways, but it doesn't end there.
I don't really know the specifics 100% but i do believe this rule got more strict through time, and now recently got less strict.
And also why Illumination of all things might be the ones that finally end this rule.
I don't really know the specifics 100% but i do believe this rule got more strict through time, and now recently got less strict.
And also why Illumination of all things might be the ones that finally end this rule.
Even with this rule in place, there are still some unanswered things.
Why can't the developers of Paper Mario use full EAD characters like Toadsworth (specially when they can use Bowser Jr. and other Sunshine characters), Rosalina or the Lumas?
Why can't the developers of Paper Mario use full EAD characters like Toadsworth (specially when they can use Bowser Jr. and other Sunshine characters), Rosalina or the Lumas?
Why can't non-EAD studios use characters they made themselves, when they could in the past? Why can't they make new unique characters anymore? Also stories, why can't there be deep stories anymore?
Well i think it's all because of Super Paper Mario.
Well i think it's all because of Super Paper Mario.
Super Paper Mario is the most 'unique' Mario game ever, the characters don't look anything Mario, if i hadn't played the game i wouldn't have guessed they were Mario characters, the story is super duper deep and there's not much "Mario" in it
Like, in the entire thing there's only a single Toad.
Not saying it's a bad thing, i actually love that.
"So?"
This is really speculative but maybe, just maybe Nintendo looked at the game and didn't like all that, didn't like how different it was, even if it sold *really* well.
Not saying it's a bad thing, i actually love that.
"So?"
This is really speculative but maybe, just maybe Nintendo looked at the game and didn't like all that, didn't like how different it was, even if it sold *really* well.
And maybe that's how we got from Super to Sticker Star, the most "Mario" game there is.
Not only that, but after Super other series got Mario'd too, for example less DK characters started appearing in Mario games, there were less Wario references,
Not only that, but after Super other series got Mario'd too, for example less DK characters started appearing in Mario games, there were less Wario references,
there was less story in games, EAD characters like Toadsworth disappeared.. If Super Paper Mario isn't "guilty" of this it's at least a huge coincidence.
But hey, let's talk about Toadsworth for a moment, why does Petey Piranha continue to appear but not him?
But hey, let's talk about Toadsworth for a moment, why does Petey Piranha continue to appear but not him?
Not just that, but why does the rule even exists at all?
Don't you think there's something different about Toadsworth? Something he shares with the non-EAD characters?
It's actually way too long and too complicated for me to talk about in here.
Don't you think there's something different about Toadsworth? Something he shares with the non-EAD characters?
It's actually way too long and too complicated for me to talk about in here.
Maybe i'll do another thread later, but if you look into it there's something Toadsworth has that non-EAD character do too, and that other EAD characters don't.
Tip: It's the same reason King Boo looks a little different in Mario games.
Tip: It's the same reason King Boo looks a little different in Mario games.
Anyways, why do i think it's getting less strict?
Well, because of a bunch of things, like DK character re-appearing in Mario games, Super Nintendo World, the unique ghosts in Luigi's Mansion 3 (also i didn't mention, but LM:DM, which came after SPM, didn't have many original
Well, because of a bunch of things, like DK character re-appearing in Mario games, Super Nintendo World, the unique ghosts in Luigi's Mansion 3 (also i didn't mention, but LM:DM, which came after SPM, didn't have many original
characters), SML being referenced in Mario Maker 2 and other stuff.
But it's mainly because of four things.
First Dixie Kong, ever asked why in most Mario games only DK and Diddy appear? Shouldn't she appear too as they're always a trio?
But it's mainly because of four things.
First Dixie Kong, ever asked why in most Mario games only DK and Diddy appear? Shouldn't she appear too as they're always a trio?
DK appears because he's DK, but why does Diddy appear?
One thing i didn't mention is that Donkey Kong Jr. was initially "adopted but not fully adopted just like half adopted" like Daisy and Wario too, but unlike Daisy and Wario he didn't stay for very long.
One thing i didn't mention is that Donkey Kong Jr. was initially "adopted but not fully adopted just like half adopted" like Daisy and Wario too, but unlike Daisy and Wario he didn't stay for very long.
Why? Because Diddy replaced him, like in every way.
Diddy actually started as a DK Jr. redesign, "Diddy" wasn't supposed to exist, the plan was to have DKC with DK and DK Jr., but Nintendo told Rare to either scrap that design or make it a separate character.
Diddy actually started as a DK Jr. redesign, "Diddy" wasn't supposed to exist, the plan was to have DKC with DK and DK Jr., but Nintendo told Rare to either scrap that design or make it a separate character.
They chose the latter obviously.
This matters because Nintendo possibly still sees Diddy as DK Jr., or at least as a replacement to him. Like how Peach was a replacement to Pauline.
I wrote like 4 tweets just trying to explain this, so
This matters because Nintendo possibly still sees Diddy as DK Jr., or at least as a replacement to him. Like how Peach was a replacement to Pauline.
I wrote like 4 tweets just trying to explain this, so
In short: DK Jr. was "adopted" by EAD like Daisy and Wario, and since Diddy replaced Jr. he probably took the 'adoption certificate' from him too.
Diddy regularly appears with DK and not Dixie becausse of that, she wasn't adopted.
Diddy regularly appears with DK and not Dixie becausse of that, she wasn't adopted.
But why am i talking about her? Cause when Dixie was added in Mario Kart Tour Nintendo made a video that looked like one of those "evolution of" videos.
And they didn't make that for Funky, only for Dixie.
I think that mightttt indicate Nintendo finally offically 'adopted'
And they didn't make that for Funky, only for Dixie.
I think that mightttt indicate Nintendo finally offically 'adopted'
Dixie, and that she might start appearing in every Mario party game from now on along DK and Diddy.
That'd mean the rule got less strict!
That'd mean the rule got less strict!
Now the moving to Pauline.
When i got into Mario stuff i always asked myself why Nintendo had replaced Pauline with Peach in Super Mario Bros., they served the exact same role and look exactly alike but with different dresses.
When i got into Mario stuff i always asked myself why Nintendo had replaced Pauline with Peach in Super Mario Bros., they served the exact same role and look exactly alike but with different dresses.
And it's not like they just renamed Pauline in SMB, she continued to appear as a separate character but with a different design starting with DK '98, but why? Why did they go through all this work instead of just making them the same character?
And i never saw people talking about this online, so i just remained confused.
But it turns out *dramatically drums rolls*, it's cause Pauline is a non-EAD character!
Yeah, neither are Mario and DK.
"Shouldn't Mario not be allowed appear in Mario then?"
The reason they replaced her in SMB was because they couldn't/didn't want to use her, and the reason
Yeah, neither are Mario and DK.
"Shouldn't Mario not be allowed appear in Mario then?"
The reason they replaced her in SMB was because they couldn't/didn't want to use her, and the reason
Peach didn't appear in DK games instead of Pauline was the same.
And hey, who was in Super Mario Odyssey, and in Mario Tennis Aces, and in Mario Kart Tour, and is practically a recurring character now? Pauline! A non-EAD character!
And hey, who was in Super Mario Odyssey, and in Mario Tennis Aces, and in Mario Kart Tour, and is practically a recurring character now? Pauline! A non-EAD character!
Does this mean that moe non-EAD characters could start appearing in EAD games? Maybe, but-
Pauline did appear in DK '94, an EAD-made game, which is btw where she got her redesign.
You could make a point that Odyssey is a mainline Mario game differently from DK '94, and that
Pauline did appear in DK '94, an EAD-made game, which is btw where she got her redesign.
You could make a point that Odyssey is a mainline Mario game differently from DK '94, and that
after DK '94 she didn't appear in an EAD game until Odyssey, but idk, she could still count less.
But anyways, let's move on to Illumination/Universal and Nintendo World.
But anyways, let's move on to Illumination/Universal and Nintendo World.
Any existing being will note that this rule is incredibly dumb, why would you want to stop characters from appearing in more stuff? Specially when many fans like them? You're basically losing money as you could very well sell merch of them, and also frustating fans.
And here's where Illumination comes, the greediest movie studio there is, the company who will milk every single thing people like in their movies to death.
Here's the thing with the upcoming Mario movie: Being a movie, it'll obviously reach more people
Here's the thing with the upcoming Mario movie: Being a movie, it'll obviously reach more people
And a videogame movie will draw more people to the source, being the games.
So, obviously Nintendo will try their best to not alienate the public with this movie.
So, obviously Nintendo will try their best to not alienate the public with this movie.
Tldr; Since Peach will most likely be kidnapped and have a side role, Daisy would be the perfect fit for a significant human female character, who is needed because represention and demographic thingz.
The need of a female character, plus her being insanely popular, plus Illumination liking to milk anything remotely popular they can-
And of course, there are other hugely popular non-EAD characters, there's a huge possibility they appear in the movie too!
And of course, there are other hugely popular non-EAD characters, there's a huge possibility they appear in the movie too!
I'm talking about Daisy because she's the most likely one to appear-
And if she's in there in a big role, that would certainly mean she'd start appearing in the actual main games too.
And may i remind you, she's a non-EAD character.
This is not just pure speculation, in the Super Nintendo World park, Daisy is included as one of the
And may i remind you, she's a non-EAD character.
This is not just pure speculation, in the Super Nintendo World park, Daisy is included as one of the
bracelets, which will play huge parts in the park, along with other main Mario characters (Mario, Luigi, Peach, Toad and Yoshi)
She's also been in a lot of promotional material this year along with them.
She's also been in a lot of promotional material this year along with them.
Now the last main thing, the reestructuring Nintendo went through in 2015.
During it all of Nintendo's development divisions (EAD & SPD) were merged to form the Nintendo EPD.
Does this means it's all good now? Tbh i don't really know.
During it all of Nintendo's development divisions (EAD & SPD) were merged to form the Nintendo EPD.
Does this means it's all good now? Tbh i don't really know.
It's only been 5 years, and yeah i know Daisy did appear in Super Mario Run and that game is mainline, but does it really count in the same way as Super Mario Odyssey does?
I see her appearance there like Wario's appearance in SM64DS, an exception not the rule.
I see her appearance there like Wario's appearance in SM64DS, an exception not the rule.
"Okay, but how do you even know about that? Souce?"
Aside from being incredibly obvious and because patterns, there's this very interesting interview with Miyamoto: https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/mario-creator-explores-luigis-mansion-dark-moon/story?id=18790574
Aside from being incredibly obvious and because patterns, there's this very interesting interview with Miyamoto: https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/mario-creator-explores-luigis-mansion-dark-moon/story?id=18790574
Miyamoto doesn't say "I don't like characters i don't make", but there's this one very insightful bit:
The Interviewer straight up asks "Why aren't Daisy and Wario in the mainline games?", and Miyamoto says it's because the games they came from had "different art styles".
The Interviewer straight up asks "Why aren't Daisy and Wario in the mainline games?", and Miyamoto says it's because the games they came from had "different art styles".
That's literally it, there's no other reason.
And this clearly applies to every other non-EAD character too.
Now.. What? Because of different art styles?
Every mainline Mario entry has a different art style, specially the original 4 Bros. games.
And this clearly applies to every other non-EAD character too.
Now.. What? Because of different art styles?
Every mainline Mario entry has a different art style, specially the original 4 Bros. games.
And that surely didn't stop Bowser, Bob-Omb, Hammer Bro., or any other character from appearing in any game, that's either a weird mistranslation or a way to say "Because i didn't make them" without actually saying that.
This interview is also one of the very scarce amount of
This interview is also one of the very scarce amount of
times Miyamoto has ever talked about Daisy and Wario, odd right?
In conclusion... I don't really know?
Keep asking Nintendo to add non-EAD characters in more Mario games i guess. But will they change? Idk either.
Everytime i open the Mario Kart Tour app i always go to the suggestions thing and suggest them to add
Keep asking Nintendo to add non-EAD characters in more Mario games i guess. But will they change? Idk either.
Everytime i open the Mario Kart Tour app i always go to the suggestions thing and suggest them to add
"More Wario, Paper Mario and M&L characters, please"
Maybe if more people did that? Idk honestly.
Maybe if more people did that? Idk honestly.
