[Thread]

The history of Socialism vs Communism vs Fascism vs Nazism

EDUCATION

The point of this thread will be to explain how Fascism is a form of socialism.

Disclaimer.

I'm a post libertarian/transhumanist/agorist.

I believe in voluntary exchange in free markets without state aggression and to use technology to maximize freedom.

I am not a collectivist at all what so ever. However if people voluntarily collect, i don't care

Next

Socialism literally depending on who claims are socialists when it comes to it.

This is why when x nation fails it didn't count but when y succeeds its praised.

Democratic Socialists, Ancoms, Tankies, etc

All of y'all define it differently.

But I'll begin.

Socialism and communism in some forms in history were used basically as same.

BUT that doesn't mean they're the same.

The "fascists/nazis can't be socialists because they killed other socialists" is poor

why

Socialists literally have ALWAYS DISAGREED and KILLED eachother

Proudhon (Mutualist Anarchist/Anti Mercantilist).

He was EXTREMELY at odds with the "state socialists"

There was "state socialists" , such as Louis Blanc.

Again who ones like Proudhon did NOT like at all.

Joseph Déjacque , WHO WAS AN ANCOM and HATED Proudhon

His thing was workers don't have a rights to the product of their labor but was about people needs.

Karl Marx, y'all damn Marxist king, broke up with Proudhon and wrote a damn book The Poverty of Philosophy which literally was written to criticize Proudhon's book The Poverty of Philosophy.

Literally from economics and strategy and implication. ALL different.

No BS

This is a key difference as well.

Marx felt violent revolution was need and a step (which is one reason why many Marxists are also violent)

Proudhon was anti violent revolution.

Benjamin Tucker (who I also really like) wasn't into Marx at all and was more Mutualist/Libertarian, later be became an Egoist/Individualist and is VERY VERY anti state socialist.

Again,

Benjamin Tucker literally said Proudhon was basically superior to Marx and Marx would force collectivism and in ways create political masters.

Again

Socialists didn't like socialists.

Benjamin also in this said Marx basically fathered State Socialism.

Here.

Again if "disagree", and you're a socialist. You're making my point.

https://cdn.mises.org/1_4_4_0.pdf 

Also

Johann Carl Fuhlrott, State Socialist, anti revolution. He was in many ways honestly communist. Anti rent, anti property, anti profit.

Ferdinand Lassalle

ANOTHER state socialist who Marx (and also Engels apparently) didn't like at all.

He believed the state should be used a tool (Nightwatch)

No.

Let's look at more socialists hating and splitting from other socialists.

Russia.

-Emancipation/ Liberation of Labour Party
-Russian Social Democratic Labor party
-Socialist Revolutionary Party (not Marxist)

ALL THREE DID NOT GET ALONG AT ALL

EVEN WITHIN THEMSELVES

Russian Social Democratic Labor party SPLIT during the second congress

Lenin - Strict as hell, lead revolution (bolsheviks)

Julius Martov disagreed with this and his split (Mensheviks) they were ancoms.

This was during a whole revolution in Russia and the followers always and kept switching SO MISS ME WITH THAT TANKIES ARE SOOOOO DIFFERENT BS

Yes i kid you not.

The ANCOMS and TANKIES their MEMBERS ALWAYS WOULD GO BACK AND FORTH which is why you also see groups like antifa advocating welfare, free healthcare, food stamps, etc.

This is the truth.

Now there's Trotsky

He was A DAMN ANCOM turned more leninist

Did you also know the Russian Social Democratic Labour Party the Congresses were literally full of state socialists and ancoms TOGETHER

Now also,

The Russian Civil war, do you know what happened...

SOCIALISTS FOUGHT OTHER SOCIALISTS

The Red Army (Lenin and Trotsky), White Army (Small socialists, Monarchs, and Markets), and Green Army (Social Democrats but Peasants)

Like bruh.

Now Lenin got old/passed

Stalin, vs Trotsky

Stalin basically yeeted 2nd place from Trotsky.

there was the Left Opposition who were in favor on Trotsky who Stalin kicked out

Now Stalin literally took from "kulaks" aka peasant (many who were Green Army). He felt they were hoarding like grains and exiled them or put them in gulags.

Stalin's 5 year plan also blended in his reign all property and such to the state.

Now what happens when you attack people's property and division of labor in relation to BASIC economics

What happens when production and supply contrast and labor costs literally are a net negative

Overages and shortages

Thus you have fanon

Oh and Stalin also had ethnic cleansing too, by the way.

Either deportation trail of tears style or gulag camps.

Alright

Now let's address Nazis.

The Nazi party started with Anton Drexler

Anton Drexler HATED capitalism for ethnic reasons (Jewish people)

He wasn't a marxist, but a nationalistic/state socialist (for white German people). Think Lenin.

Now Hitler joined and blew up the party.

Name changed to National Socialist German's Party

25 Point Plan

It literally is socialism for White German's only

NO BS

"They only said it to appeal to the x" yes, they did and so did the RUSSIANS WITH THEIR FORMS OF SOCIALISM

Now some people say Nazis were influenced by Mussolini and such, both timelines happened at the same time.

Now

Let's begin with Mussolini

Mussolini literally was a member of the ITALIAN SOCIALIST PARTY AND LOVED MARX

The difference was well... Nationalism.

(He was eventually killed by commies)

I mean for hells sake, his own book goes on about the workers this and socialism this

Mussolini was also raised in socialist household and wrote socialist articles in his youth for a socialist paper.

Giovanni Gentile , the father of fascism, also a neo-Hegelian

He basically wrote The Doctrine of Fascism

Influenced by Marx and Engels.

La filosofia di Marx is basically a tribute to them.

So in conclusion

What is socialism

It depends who are what your baseline is because socialists have hated other socialists, been racists, be dictators, anarchists, even the "right wing" aka fascist-syndicalist = socialists.