So enjoyed this conversation between @PageauJonathan and @holland_tom. My only gripe it was WAYYY too short. These two need to be stuck on a Covid-free cruise ship for 2 weeks to go far deeper than what they just touched on.

Jonathan needs to read more of Tom's books and Tom needs to dig deeper into Pageau's Symbolic world. Tom could connect Jonathan to some of the history of the Eastern Roman empire and Jonathan could help Tom with the "spiritual" question.

Jonathan's audience when Tom mentions Dostoevsky and Orthodoxy...

Tom writes well about the ways in which the Eastern empire unself-conciously (something secularity greatly inhibits) embodies the eschaton but then fails. Tom also, in his own journey understands his rootedness in "place" as any historian would.

One of the big questions I have with the new revival in Orthodoxy in North America is how placelessly-evangelicalish it can be. How will that play out?

Huge thanks to both of them for doing this conversation and it just keeps expanding my card in terms of my post-bucket-list for the age-to-come. A thousand year convo with Pageau and Holland about all of this... :)