Read on Twitter
I know that jumping around mediterranean history, there are roman emperors everywhere. Sometimes multiple ones at a time. I mean, the last guy with a half-decent claim to the title died in 1926 after all.
So, today I'm doing a public utility thread: when I (or anyone) mention a roman empire, *which one is it*?
THREAD: A PRACTICAL GUIDE TO RECOGNIZE ROMAN EMPIRES IN THE WILD
THREAD: A PRACTICAL GUIDE TO RECOGNIZE ROMAN EMPIRES IN THE WILD
(can't believe there isn't a better eagle emoji than that, that's disgraceful, twitter)
SPECIMEN 1 - The Actual, Legit Roman Empire.
HOW TO SPOT: easy one, a blob going all the way around the mediterranean
WHAT IT WAS: the famous one! They had togas, gays, fish sauce, gladiators, pax romana, feeding christians to lions, all the good stuff.
HOW TO SPOT: easy one, a blob going all the way around the mediterranean
WHAT IT WAS: the famous one! They had togas, gays, fish sauce, gladiators, pax romana, feeding christians to lions, all the good stuff.
FAMOUS FOR: being The Original Roman Empire TM. Even if it was very different from the pop history version.
BEWARE: A LOT of fascist fanboys. Which is kind of ironic since it was a comparatively peaceful, multicultural state. Also very, very gay.
BEWARE: A LOT of fascist fanboys. Which is kind of ironic since it was a comparatively peaceful, multicultural state. Also very, very gay.
SPECIMEN 2 - Not an Empire, but still: The Roman Republic
HOW TO SPOT: kinda like the empire, but smaller, and probably busy stabbing someone
WHAT IT WAS: the somewhat smaller and MUCH nastier edgy-teen-phase of the Roman state.
HOW TO SPOT: kinda like the empire, but smaller, and probably busy stabbing someone
WHAT IT WAS: the somewhat smaller and MUCH nastier edgy-teen-phase of the Roman state.
FAMOUS FOR: Most of the bloody stuff you think about the Roman Empire is true for the republic
BEWARE: Often bunched up with the Empire. It was undeniably the same polity, but it changed so much in time, I think the distinction often matters (as we accept with byzantium).
BEWARE: Often bunched up with the Empire. It was undeniably the same polity, but it changed so much in time, I think the distinction often matters (as we accept with byzantium).
3 - The Unholy Mess of the Western Roman Empire
HOW TO SPOT: looks legit untill you see it lacks the best half (WRE is the red part in the map).
WHAT IT WAS: When Diocletian split the empire, he kept the eastern half and yeeted the west to poor Maximian. It didn't last long.
HOW TO SPOT: looks legit untill you see it lacks the best half (WRE is the red part in the map).
WHAT IT WAS: When Diocletian split the empire, he kept the eastern half and yeeted the west to poor Maximian. It didn't last long.
FAMOUS FOR: basically only mentioned in the question "how did the Western Roman Empire end?". The most famous failure in history.
BEWARE: sometimes referred as "The Roman Empire" in the above, but it was the sickly twin. The wealthier and more stable eastern half often overlooked
BEWARE: sometimes referred as "The Roman Empire" in the above, but it was the sickly twin. The wealthier and more stable eastern half often overlooked
4 - The Much Better Eastern Roman Empire (AKA byzantine empire)
HOW TO SPOT: controlling turkey and greece for a fuckton of years, looked like this for most of its life...
HOW TO SPOT: controlling turkey and greece for a fuckton of years, looked like this for most of its life...
...but sometimes used an older profile picture from its wild youth:
WHAT IT WAS: A fascinating state with a thing for eunuchs, blindings, tons of gold, ruling women, and NEVER, EVER DYING.
As my unbiased, well-researched opinion, Empress Theodora (pictured) can step on me at any time
As my unbiased, well-researched opinion, Empress Theodora (pictured) can step on me at any time
FAMOUS FOR: Mostly not famous, despite having lasted 1000 fucking years, often as the mediterranean largest power.
BEWARE: Either mentioned as "THE BULWARK AGAINST ISLAM" (quite ironic given how it went down), or "A DOOMED, DECLINING RUMP STATE".
BEWARE: Either mentioned as "THE BULWARK AGAINST ISLAM" (quite ironic given how it went down), or "A DOOMED, DECLINING RUMP STATE".
(bitter addendum: "the eastern roman empire entered a slow decline untill it ended in 1204 - or 1453, depending on personal preference - sounds about like "the sickly child died after a long agony, at age 104")
5 - THE IMITATOR ROMAN EMPIRE (aka the Holy Roman Empire)
HOW TO SPOT: Come on, it's *in Germany*. Emperor usually called something like Frederick XVII of schwztkkkken.
Makes maps a nightmare because it was a collection of like 8413 small countries.
HOW TO SPOT: Come on, it's *in Germany*. Emperor usually called something like Frederick XVII of schwztkkkken.
Makes maps a nightmare because it was a collection of like 8413 small countries.
WHAT IT WAS: A beautiful, complex dumpster fire of a polity which had theocracies, republics, kingdoms and probably fairy courts too inside itself.
While fascinating, the "roman" part of the name was 100% papal wishful thinking.
They needed cheat sheet to remember who was in it
While fascinating, the "roman" part of the name was 100% papal wishful thinking.
They needed cheat sheet to remember who was in it
FAMOUS FOR: One fucking Voltaire quote
BEWARE: Makes history confusing in years 800 to 1200 since you had *two* roman emperors. It was a very interesting polity itself, and often overlooked because doesn't look like a modern nation-state.
BEWARE: Makes history confusing in years 800 to 1200 since you had *two* roman emperors. It was a very interesting polity itself, and often overlooked because doesn't look like a modern nation-state.
Fun fact: long story short, the Pope proclaimed charlemagne "roman emperor" partly as a weird way to grab power, and partly because the legit empress in constantinople was a woman, and THAT JUST WOULDN'T DO.
6 - THE PARASITE ROMAN EMPIRE (aka the Latin Empire) 
HOW TO SPOT: "latin empire" sounds legit but it's a trick. Just controlled part of grece, and it's usually on maps suspiciously full of crusader states.
HOW TO SPOT: "latin empire" sounds legit but it's a trick. Just controlled part of grece, and it's usually on maps suspiciously full of crusader states.
WHAT IT WAS: The murder weapon. It was hastily cobbled together by the guys who had destroyed byzantium.
FAMOUS FOR: proving that you can't just put a feudal ruler on the roman throne and just hope it works
BEWARE: it was "roman" in the way a parasitic wasp is a "butterfly"
FAMOUS FOR: proving that you can't just put a feudal ruler on the roman throne and just hope it works
BEWARE: it was "roman" in the way a parasitic wasp is a "butterfly"
7 - THE UNEXPECTED ROMAN EMPIRE (the Ottoman empire) 
HOW TO SPOT: very large in modern centuries, rulers sported an impressive beard.
WHAT IT WAS: Byzantium ended in 1204 and super-ended in 1453. The one successor state with a small scrap of legitimacy was the Ottoman empire.
HOW TO SPOT: very large in modern centuries, rulers sported an impressive beard.
WHAT IT WAS: Byzantium ended in 1204 and super-ended in 1453. The one successor state with a small scrap of legitimacy was the Ottoman empire.
FAMOUS FOR: Unfortunately, mostly for its bloody and oppressive policies in its last century. But long before, it had been one of the most tolerant and enlightened european states.
BEWARE: roman fanboys having a stroke if you say an islamic state was successor to the roman empire
BEWARE: roman fanboys having a stroke if you say an islamic state was successor to the roman empire
9 - THE NOPE NOPE ROMAN EMPIRE FUCK THEM ("Italian empire") 
HOW TO SPOT: It's Italy plus unlucky colonies. You can assume anyone suggesting any connection to ancient Rome is a fash. (If you want to check, ask them how many roman emperors had male lovers.)
HOW TO SPOT: It's Italy plus unlucky colonies. You can assume anyone suggesting any connection to ancient Rome is a fash. (If you want to check, ask them how many roman emperors had male lovers.)
WHAT IT WAS: Fascist Italy liked to pretend they had continuity with the empire of old. For the record, that's beyond ridicolous, both historically and ideologically. The one roman thing they ever did was the war crimes.
FAMOUS FOR: colonial war crimes in the fascist era should be much more famous. The point is VERY often glossed over in italian history discourse.
BEWARE: Modern Italy is not the roman empire, not even a successor state. Fascists can die mad about it.
BEWARE: Modern Italy is not the roman empire, not even a successor state. Fascists can die mad about it.
Ok, this was kind of a reference thread so I can link it in the future when i prattle about this or that roman empire. Next week I'll do something funnier: A thread about WRE. No, not the Western Roman Empire: The Worst Romans Ever.
Almost forgot: credit for the HRE map, couldn't find a nice one in public domain https://www.deviantart.com/iklone/art/Holy-Roman-Empire-Map-1500-Annotated-747750281
Bonus roman empire, last AND least but I love it still.
AFTER the WRE fell, one local commander kept ruling a province in Gaul (now France) as an independent domain, but *insisting he was only waiting for roman order to be restored*. I love that kind of hopeless committment.
AFTER the WRE fell, one local commander kept ruling a province in Gaul (now France) as an independent domain, but *insisting he was only waiting for roman order to be restored*. I love that kind of hopeless committment.
(I purposefully avoided the splinter states, even the cool ones, but I link a thread from my lovely partner about the best one: https://twitter.com/jackdaw_writes/status/1292511238728159232 )
#SPQRposting
#SPQRposting
