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One thing I want to make sure to go back and clarify/emphasize with this thread is the difference between strategic, careful engagement with Nazis as a means to an end, and just palling around with them casually. https://twitter.com/gwensnyderPHL/status/1304227138577543168
There are some antifascists and reporters with the experience to engage this way.
The issue is befriending and/or falling under their influence.
Folks who aren't transparent about their interactions AND working accountably with an experienced antifascist community are suspect.
The issue is befriending and/or falling under their influence.
Folks who aren't transparent about their interactions AND working accountably with an experienced antifascist community are suspect.
Even then, "communities" can come under the influence if they aren't accountable.
One thing that always
REALLY set me on edge with folks in and defending that LUL/CVE clique that CV Vitolo-Haddad hung with was the tendency to play messenger for Nazis.
One thing that always
REALLY set me on edge with folks in and defending that LUL/CVE clique that CV Vitolo-Haddad hung with was the tendency to play messenger for Nazis.
Like, I'd be exposing terror Nazis and folks from that crowd would DM me to be like "I was talking to [Nazi that helped put you on a kill list] and they say you don't know what you're talking about and you're going to get hurt and should stop"
This would happen A LOT.
Like, okay, yes I know they want me to think those things.
I know they'd like me to stop.
That's why they put me on a kill list.
Like, okay, yes I know they want me to think those things.
I know they'd like me to stop.
That's why they put me on a kill list.
The problem was, they'd started to believe their Nazi sources were, on some level, pals and/or genuine.
They'd begun to believe that because they'd honed them as sources, they were now receiving some level of honest insight into Nazi dynamics from the Nazis themselves.
They'd begun to believe that because they'd honed them as sources, they were now receiving some level of honest insight into Nazi dynamics from the Nazis themselves.
And while I don't question that they were sometimes receiving accurate shittalk from the Nazis-- Nazis love to fuck each other over-- they just started to take things at some level of face value and carry their water.
That's part of how a bunch of them got on "stop deplatforming Nazis, we can de-rad by making friends with them" trips.
I actually think they believe/believed it.
But I think they believed it because Nazis manipulated them into believing it.
I actually think they believe/believed it.
But I think they believed it because Nazis manipulated them into believing it.
Like, Nazis routinely manipulate people into beliefs (still relatively) far outside the mainstream.
That takes skillful manipulation.
We all tend to think we're above manipulation, but that very arrogance makes us more susceptible.
That takes skillful manipulation.
We all tend to think we're above manipulation, but that very arrogance makes us more susceptible.
That's why the "don't fuck with Nazis" rule is so damn important.
If you aren't self-aware enough to guard against manipulation, and/or you aren't in broader accountable community relationships that will pull you back if you start falling in, you are susceptible.
If you aren't self-aware enough to guard against manipulation, and/or you aren't in broader accountable community relationships that will pull you back if you start falling in, you are susceptible.
Not susceptible to becoming a Nazi, necessarily.
But susceptible to being manipulated into enabling them.
They will use your empathy, your tendency towards trust, your ability to see humanity in the Other.
They will weaponize them against you, unless you have safeguards.
But susceptible to being manipulated into enabling them.
They will use your empathy, your tendency towards trust, your ability to see humanity in the Other.
They will weaponize them against you, unless you have safeguards.
They will ESPECIALLY play to any savior/martyr tendencies you have and make you believe that they are on the verge of getting out, and that your big heart will save them.
We don't save people, though.
We can only help people who have started the work of saving themselves.
We don't save people, though.
We can only help people who have started the work of saving themselves.
