Read on Twitter
Kind of comments which skew the discussion rather than lead to an informed discussion. Some are more deshbhakt than others, it seems. https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1283347733223366657
Most hilarious bit is that those who crow about indigenous products have never used it! And when actual users of many of these products point out issues, you get fancy PPT type arguments which have no relation to ground realities. Still bigger issue is that +
+ most of this crowd will give you one or two examples of Army's disinterest in domestic products like Arjun to silence criticism of EVERY other system. No criticism from Services is discussed on its merit. When the reality is that if you see IA orders for last 10 years, DRDO +
+ products will feature prominently in them. And questions are raised only when IA asks for an import; there are no questions asked for delay in R&D and induction. I remember the typical heartburn when interim ATGM imports were suggested for Rudra and LCH because as per this +
+ deshbhakt lobby, HELINA was just around the corner. No one's now asking where's HELINA when Rudra helicopters are flying in Ladakh w/o an ATGM against Chinese army composed mainly of mechanised forces!
And one more funny bit:
- Army rejects good product: Army loves import
- Army rejects bad products: Army did not work closely with DRDO, it does not believe in intervative development, and hence, army loves import
- Army rejects good product: Army loves import
- Army rejects bad products: Army did not work closely with DRDO, it does not believe in intervative development, and hence, army loves import
I'd long time back identified the reason for this skewed debate:
- Most people understand technology not army issues like logistics, operational issues, maintenance etc.
- Focus is only on the R&D product, on tech side. What most don't understand is that from Services +
- Most people understand technology not army issues like logistics, operational issues, maintenance etc.
- Focus is only on the R&D product, on tech side. What most don't understand is that from Services +
+ perspective, good product means induction, SUSTAINED performance as per laid down requirement, spares, maintenance, timely support by manufacturer, reasonable uptime etc.
- People even crib about the long product testing and blame Services for putting domestic products
+
- People even crib about the long product testing and blame Services for putting domestic products
+
+
through difficult test routine as compared to imports.
- What everyone conveniently forgets that imports underwent development and induction related testing in their home country already!
- If you go by expectations of this self proclaimed desh bhakt crowd, the moment DRDO +
through difficult test routine as compared to imports.
- What everyone conveniently forgets that imports underwent development and induction related testing in their home country already!
- If you go by expectations of this self proclaimed desh bhakt crowd, the moment DRDO +
+ comes out with a product brochure, it's good to be inducted.
- And the only reason it's not being inducted because Services are anti- domestic products.
- The fact that we never hear of Service's side of story, while DRDO and DPSU have enough leaks about their products, means +
- And the only reason it's not being inducted because Services are anti- domestic products.
- The fact that we never hear of Service's side of story, while DRDO and DPSU have enough leaks about their products, means +
+ we don't have complete picture. It's distorted in favor of DRDO and DPSU.
- Just take the example of NUH, Navy and HAL.
- Thank goodness we've an ex-Navy Chief and other illustrious officers who gave Navy's side of the NUH story and came to know how basically HAL never +
- Just take the example of NUH, Navy and HAL.
- Thank goodness we've an ex-Navy Chief and other illustrious officers who gave Navy's side of the NUH story and came to know how basically HAL never +
+ bothered about NUH.
- Only when it occured to it that with declining future IAF/IA orders for ALH, NUH can be a good cash cow, it's trying to scuttle a procurement process for purely selfish needs.
- What we need is an informed assessment of both the parties involved, not this+
- Only when it occured to it that with declining future IAF/IA orders for ALH, NUH can be a good cash cow, it's trying to scuttle a procurement process for purely selfish needs.
- What we need is an informed assessment of both the parties involved, not this+
+ idiotic holier than thou approach and labeling people and organisations because they don't act as per your stupid expectations.
Now, please tell me, is IAF patriotic enough? Or, should we have merit-demerit system?
- IAF not ordered 200+ Tejas Mk X (Demerit - 100)
- IAF back domestic over NASSAM-II (Merit - 20)
Score: -80, hence, still no patriotic enough. https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1285210143198601217?s=20
- IAF not ordered 200+ Tejas Mk X (Demerit - 100)
- IAF back domestic over NASSAM-II (Merit - 20)
Score: -80, hence, still no patriotic enough. https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1285210143198601217?s=20
Current DRDO+Services scenario:
Earlier, heartburn between the two used to be because of R&D establishment claiming that they'll develop a product in X years, import used to get scuttled, and product at times took 2X or 3X of that time. Plus, successful product from Services +
Earlier, heartburn between the two used to be because of R&D establishment claiming that they'll develop a product in X years, import used to get scuttled, and product at times took 2X or 3X of that time. Plus, successful product from Services +
+ POV meant consistent performance, no lapse in production quality, proper QC, spares & support etc.
- Earlier, R&D estb used to make tall claims for multiple reasons, Services weren't too willing to work with them, GSQR at times were 'BBC' - Best of Brochures, funding wasn't +
- Earlier, R&D estb used to make tall claims for multiple reasons, Services weren't too willing to work with them, GSQR at times were 'BBC' - Best of Brochures, funding wasn't +
+ smooth etc. Basically, a massive logjam with fingers being pointed everywhere.
- And most importantly, please don't forget that in case of most R&D products, we were developing both the industrial base and the product.
- There was hardly any tech/industrial base outside of +
- And most importantly, please don't forget that in case of most R&D products, we were developing both the industrial base and the product.
- There was hardly any tech/industrial base outside of +
+ R&D establishment which could be leveraged.
- But over the years, we've crossed the hump in many tech areas. Surface to Air missiles, ATGM (almost there, seeker is the killer part), radars (fabulous job), helicopters, electronics, optics, AAM (holy grail of defense R&D) etc.
+
- But over the years, we've crossed the hump in many tech areas. Surface to Air missiles, ATGM (almost there, seeker is the killer part), radars (fabulous job), helicopters, electronics, optics, AAM (holy grail of defense R&D) etc.
+
+
- In cases where acquisition is an urgency (remember, many of our products are one/two generations behind), we now follow a mix of import + domestic solution.
- Case: Arudhra Radars - req split between import (1st pic-Israeli EL/M-2084) and domestic (2nd pic-DRDO Arudhra)
- In cases where acquisition is an urgency (remember, many of our products are one/two generations behind), we now follow a mix of import + domestic solution.
- Case: Arudhra Radars - req split between import (1st pic-Israeli EL/M-2084) and domestic (2nd pic-DRDO Arudhra)
+ So, situation is much improved today, though, there is always scope for more improvement.
- Only worrying thing is that while some centers of excellence have emerged in DRDO, other labs haven't been too successful. Smalls arms is a case in point.
- Only worrying thing is that while some centers of excellence have emerged in DRDO, other labs haven't been too successful. Smalls arms is a case in point.
What are Services supposed to do in such cases? Why is the onus of engaging with domestic players only with Services? How about getting DPSUs to pull-up their pants and deliver products on time? Or let pvt sector do the work. It takes two to tango. https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1285510337261785090?s=20
- Everytime there is talk of emergency purchase, APFSDS rounds are always there.
- Because of repeated disasters by OFB 10 years ago, lakhs of rounds were rejected, and we're yet to make-up the shortfall.
- Here's a detailed thread on it
https://twitter.com/KesariDhwaj/status/1158387153518227457?s=20
- Because of repeated disasters by OFB 10 years ago, lakhs of rounds were rejected, and we're yet to make-up the shortfall.
- Here's a detailed thread on it
https://twitter.com/KesariDhwaj/status/1158387153518227457?s=20
- A 2013 detailed analysis on the situation in India w/r/t this ammunition.
- OFB screwed-up mfg, imports got banned, DRDO product was then not up to mark, 92% production shortfall etc.
- Read and see the kind of constraints Services have to work with.
https://vatsrohit.blogspot.com/2013/11/indian-tank-ammunition-scenario-ke.html
- OFB screwed-up mfg, imports got banned, DRDO product was then not up to mark, 92% production shortfall etc.
- Read and see the kind of constraints Services have to work with.
https://vatsrohit.blogspot.com/2013/11/indian-tank-ammunition-scenario-ke.html
- So, HELINA missile is now Dhruvastra. Not bad.
- Video of trials of this missile with lofted trajectory and straight/direct attack mode.
- Look forward to similar trials on LCH and Rudra. https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1285796330787319808?s=20
- Video of trials of this missile with lofted trajectory and straight/direct attack mode.
- Look forward to similar trials on LCH and Rudra. https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1285796330787319808?s=20
2nd video:
- missile range was much shorter than when fired in lofted trajectory.
- Between 0.5-0.6 second, there is visible pitch motion; missile nose points-up, then points down and missile sinks very quickly.
@Firezstarter1 - Your opinion?
- missile range was much shorter than when fired in lofted trajectory.
- Between 0.5-0.6 second, there is visible pitch motion; missile nose points-up, then points down and missile sinks very quickly.
@Firezstarter1 - Your opinion?
- Here is an important catch by @Indrani1_Roy on the Dhruvastra missile - Vane system for TVC rather than a flexible TVC nozzle.
- NASA X-31 a/c, which was a test bed for understanding TVC, used jet vane control instead of nozzle like in Su-30 (2nd pic)
https://twitter.com/Indrani1_Roy/status/1285941856291835905?s=20
- NASA X-31 a/c, which was a test bed for understanding TVC, used jet vane control instead of nozzle like in Su-30 (2nd pic)
https://twitter.com/Indrani1_Roy/status/1285941856291835905?s=20
With Army pilots working/operating with HAL crews in an operational area and witnessing the performance of the machine first hand, one hopes that this will expedite the approval and tendering process. https://twitter.com/manishindiatv/status/1298959147451338753?s=20
Finally, contract for 6 new Pinaka Regt to be placed on the pvt sector (4 x L&T +2 x TATA) And not only that, now the rockets are also being produced by Pvt Sector. Pinaka has been a great success story of DRDO-Pvt sector tie-up.
https://m.economictimes.com/news/defence/major-deal-for-private-sector-def-ministry-inks-rs-5000-cr-project-with-lt-tata/amp_articleshow/77847689.cms?utm_source=twitter_pwa&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialsharebuttons&__twitter_impression=true
https://m.economictimes.com/news/defence/major-deal-for-private-sector-def-ministry-inks-rs-5000-cr-project-with-lt-tata/amp_articleshow/77847689.cms?utm_source=twitter_pwa&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialsharebuttons&__twitter_impression=true
- SMART test should be seen in context with long range surveillance capability of IN which includes P-8I, IL-38, Do-228, existing drones & to be inducted MQ-9.
- Also, I don't think it is limited only to anti-submarine ops.
- It is equally applicable for anti-ship role as well.
+
- Also, I don't think it is limited only to anti-submarine ops.
- It is equally applicable for anti-ship role as well.
+
- Way I look at it is this: surveillance assets track enemy ships 300+ km from Indian waters.
- A barrage of SMART missiles are fired to confront this threat from afar.
- Similarly, ships docked in naval + commercial ports can be targeted from a stand-off distance.
- It's use+
- A barrage of SMART missiles are fired to confront this threat from afar.
- Similarly, ships docked in naval + commercial ports can be targeted from a stand-off distance.
- It's use+
+ against submarines will be a much more complicated affair simply because tracking under-water assets is that much more difficult.
- For example, if IN surveillance assets pick-up Chinese submarines transiting one of the choke points in SE Asia and then manage to continuously +
- For example, if IN surveillance assets pick-up Chinese submarines transiting one of the choke points in SE Asia and then manage to continuously +
+ trail it during its passage in the Indian Ocean.
- In anti-ship role, this is much more reliable and doable tech as compared to the Chinese DF-21 'Carrier Killer' missile.
- Simply because compared to end-game targeting of a maneuvering a/c carrier by a supersonic missile +
- In anti-ship role, this is much more reliable and doable tech as compared to the Chinese DF-21 'Carrier Killer' missile.
- Simply because compared to end-game targeting of a maneuvering a/c carrier by a supersonic missile +
+ is that much more complicated.
- As compared to a torpedo dropped in the vicinity of the target, and then the torpedo using its on sensors to identify and home into the target.
- The crucial points here are torpedo performance (range, sensors, speed, warhead) and the ability+
- As compared to a torpedo dropped in the vicinity of the target, and then the torpedo using its on sensors to identify and home into the target.
- The crucial points here are torpedo performance (range, sensors, speed, warhead) and the ability+
+ of the targeted surface vessels to detect and track the missile in the air while its coming towards them.
- Plus, if it can be shot-down by onboard SAMs on these ships.
- Not to mention the per unit cost part of the missile+ torpedo combo.
- In the end, it does represent a +
- Plus, if it can be shot-down by onboard SAMs on these ships.
- Not to mention the per unit cost part of the missile+ torpedo combo.
- In the end, it does represent a +
+ technology to have and evolve further.
- But its efficacy is tied to a robust surface and under-water surveillance network, especially in case of submarines.
- We need to have our own SOSUS covering key approaches and sensitive maritime zones. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOSUS
- But its efficacy is tied to a robust surface and under-water surveillance network, especially in case of submarines.
- We need to have our own SOSUS covering key approaches and sensitive maritime zones. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOSUS
Something which I've opined as well. I see it as a very powerful tool in anti-surface capability. https://twitter.com/joe_sameer/status/1313290454494978048?s=20
(DRDO Thread)
@ShaunakSA @elmihiro @__phoenix_fire_ @Firezstarter1 @Soumik_Pyne @Aditya_G_Social @AditiIndiaFirst @bennedose @hukum2082 @Indrani1_Roy @nileshjrane
@ShaunakSA @elmihiro @__phoenix_fire_ @Firezstarter1 @Soumik_Pyne @Aditya_G_Social @AditiIndiaFirst @bennedose @hukum2082 @Indrani1_Roy @nileshjrane
[Defense R&D, Production & Acquisition] https://thewire.in/security/working-hard-to-ensure-early-supply-of-s-400-missile-systems-to-india-russia
DRDO successfully tested the QRSAM twice. QRSAM brings many novel techs. Few pointers -
1. 4-side AESA radar - See 3rd image. It has 4 fixed radar panels which provide on-the-move surveillance with high refresh rate.
2. Compared to this, it requires considerable time to set-up +
1. 4-side AESA radar - See 3rd image. It has 4 fixed radar panels which provide on-the-move surveillance with high refresh rate.
2. Compared to this, it requires considerable time to set-up +
+ the surveillance and fire-control-radar for Akash missile (pic-01)
3. QRSAM has two radars - one is Battery Surveillance Radar (BSR) and other is Battery Multi-Function Radar (BMFR)
4. Interestingly, both radars are similar in appearance and differ in their technical +
3. QRSAM has two radars - one is Battery Surveillance Radar (BSR) and other is Battery Multi-Function Radar (BMFR)
4. Interestingly, both radars are similar in appearance and differ in their technical +
+ configuration
5. BSR is C-Band while BMFR is X-Band (this will provide guidance to the missile).
6. Range is 120 and 80 km, respectively. While not mentioned yet, but I expect a much longer range surveillance radar at Regimental HQ level to also materialize.
+
5. BSR is C-Band while BMFR is X-Band (this will provide guidance to the missile).
6. Range is 120 and 80 km, respectively. While not mentioned yet, but I expect a much longer range surveillance radar at Regimental HQ level to also materialize.
+
7. Unlike Akash, where missile is guided by the radar till the target, in case of QRSAM, BMFR will provide mid-course guidance through 'radar-data-link' and when the missile is close to target, its own RF-Seeker will take over.
8. It has 6 ready-to-fire canisterized missile on+
8. It has 6 ready-to-fire canisterized missile on+
+ on a high-mobility vehicle.
9. Mobile AESA radar along with canisterized missiles provide IA with a high mobility AD missile system which can not only move along with its maneuver elements but also quickly acquire target on the move and fire (after short-halt).
10. Going by +
9. Mobile AESA radar along with canisterized missiles provide IA with a high mobility AD missile system which can not only move along with its maneuver elements but also quickly acquire target on the move and fire (after short-halt).
10. Going by +
+ System configuration as given by DRDO, we're looking at 72 ready-to-fire missiles per QRSAM regiment! 
11. RCPV is linked to each BCPV through satellite link while each BCPV is linked to CG through Radio-on-the-Move (8 km max distance)
(check image for abbreviation)
+
11. RCPV is linked to each BCPV through satellite link while each BCPV is linked to CG through Radio-on-the-Move (8 km max distance)
(check image for abbreviation)
+
+
12. Interestingly, each CG is supposed to have 1 x BMFR for each missile launch vehicle (MLV).
13. That makes it - 12 x BMFR, 4 x BSR and 12 MLV per Regiment.
14. What is unknow is this - how many missile can be simultaneously handled by each BMFR? @Firezstarter1
12. Interestingly, each CG is supposed to have 1 x BMFR for each missile launch vehicle (MLV).
13. That makes it - 12 x BMFR, 4 x BSR and 12 MLV per Regiment.
14. What is unknow is this - how many missile can be simultaneously handled by each BMFR? @Firezstarter1
15. Radar also has stabilized eletro-optical tracking system.
16. QRSAM represents a quantum jump in India's ability to develop complete SAM systems consisting of missile, its guidance & surveillance.
17. Expect at least 8-10 such regiments to be ordered by the Indian Army.
16. QRSAM represents a quantum jump in India's ability to develop complete SAM systems consisting of missile, its guidance & surveillance.
17. Expect at least 8-10 such regiments to be ordered by the Indian Army.
MOD working with private sector to develop indigenous or at least Make-in-India solution to the perennial problem of 125mm APFSDS ammunition. Need to get away from Russian import. It is required for T-90 and T-72 tanks. Read both the attached posts.
- India-Israel $260Mn deal
- SPICE-2000 bomb guidance kits
- 300 SPIKE LR ATGM (2nd mention that it is LR SPIKE that is being imported)
- BNET - Broadband Internet Protocol (IP) tactical radios https://thewire.in/security/india-200-million-dollar-deal-israel-spice-bombs
- SPICE-2000 bomb guidance kits
- 300 SPIKE LR ATGM (2nd mention that it is LR SPIKE that is being imported)
- BNET - Broadband Internet Protocol (IP) tactical radios https://thewire.in/security/india-200-million-dollar-deal-israel-spice-bombs
- Perfect example of the position of Indian Armed Forces in the acquisition process.
- Army desperately wants helicopters, but procurement process is stuck with powers-that-be least bothered about timelines and lives of pilots.
- Domestic program is + https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/army-to-seek-waiver-from-defence-ministry-to-expedite-helicopter-deal/article33418788.ece
- Army desperately wants helicopters, but procurement process is stuck with powers-that-be least bothered about timelines and lives of pilots.
- Domestic program is + https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/army-to-seek-waiver-from-defence-ministry-to-expedite-helicopter-deal/article33418788.ece
+ on 'verge' of achieving IOC, but we don't yet know the exact timelines.
- Even if contract for Ka-226 is signed 'now', the first lot of helicopters from Russia will most probably start arriving in next 24 months.
- Under normal circumstances, best option is go for own LUH+
- Even if contract for Ka-226 is signed 'now', the first lot of helicopters from Russia will most probably start arriving in next 24 months.
- Under normal circumstances, best option is go for own LUH+
+ and put maximum resources behind it.
- But considering the urgency of requirement, at best, directly import 50-60 from Russia to replace the oldest Chetaks/Cheetahs in service, and get LUH production going.
- But today, we're not here, not there.
- And IA is the biggest loser!
- But considering the urgency of requirement, at best, directly import 50-60 from Russia to replace the oldest Chetaks/Cheetahs in service, and get LUH production going.
- But today, we're not here, not there.
- And IA is the biggest loser!
- I had said this during the start of Indo-China stand-off in Ladakh that one of the good things which will happen because of it is that all the projected requirements, which have been stuck for years, will be expedited.
- Thank you Xi Jinping! https://theprint.in/defence/india-stocks-up-missile-arsenal-as-it-prepares-for-another-tense-summer-in-ladakh/576386/?utm_source=izooto&utm_medium=push_notification&utm_campaign=ThePrint&&__twitter_impression=true
- Thank you Xi Jinping! https://theprint.in/defence/india-stocks-up-missile-arsenal-as-it-prepares-for-another-tense-summer-in-ladakh/576386/?utm_source=izooto&utm_medium=push_notification&utm_campaign=ThePrint&&__twitter_impression=true
- Agni-V slated for induction and deployment.
- Other imp items in this report : Trials of Astra Mk II with 150km range, longer range Pinaka rockets and underwater UUV slated for early 2021.
- DRDO has received orders for AEW&C Block 2 aircraft. https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2021/jan/04/india-plans-deployment-of-nuclear-capable-agni-v-this-year-2245188.html
- Other imp items in this report : Trials of Astra Mk II with 150km range, longer range Pinaka rockets and underwater UUV slated for early 2021.
- DRDO has received orders for AEW&C Block 2 aircraft. https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2021/jan/04/india-plans-deployment-of-nuclear-capable-agni-v-this-year-2245188.html
