Thread by @w_cannae, Context MATTERS: Why Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is not the GOAT Center, let alone [...]

Context MATTERS: Why Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is not the GOAT Center, let alone anywhere near the 3rd Greatest Player of All-Time

I can’t believe it is so widely accepted that Kareem is undisputedly a top 3 player of all-time. His resume is so overrated I actually laugh when I see someone trying to say he’s greater than Lebron AND Jordan.

Kareem is very arguably not even a top 3 center of all time. This is why context matters and NBA twitter needs to stop using basketball reference as the end-all be-all. It’s always good to know stats, but context is always more important.

When you apply context to Kareems very successful yet very overrated resume, it suddenly becomes almost a joke that you were so fooled by thinking he was this great.

6 rings, 6 MVPs, 2 FMVPs, 19x All-Star, 10x All-NBA first team, 5x All-NBA defensive first team, 2x scoring champ, 4x blocks leader looks amazing and top 3 worthy right? Wrong.

Once you do a little bit of researching, you come to find out that Kareem’s nods all are heavily concentrated in playing in his prime in not only the weakest era of all-time, but by also playing on the most stacked team in the weakest conference post-3pt line era.

Kareems competition was severely trash for the 70s MVP titles, it’s not even a question. Bob Mcadoo was his MVP competition. I highly doubt Kareem is winning 6 MVPs in any other era, especially one with MJ, Bird, Magic, Hakeem, Russell, Oscar, West, Wilt, Lebron, Curry

Kareems 6 MVPs came in 71,72,74,76,77,80. In the first 5 MVP seasons in which he won 1 ring, 2 finals apperances(with a top 5 PG ever) and then proceeded to do absolutely nothing until the GOAT PG had entered the chat.

Kareem two scoring titles only came when Oscar was still a great player and hadn’t completely left his prime, as well as his only two finals apperances(71,74) until Magic came around.

Even in his 4 last seasons leading up to Magic, after he averaged 30ppg in 75, his PPG went on a very steady decline until The Lakers drafted Magic Johnson, and then he started averaging his best FG% and his ppg went back up.

Despite Kareem clearly being the best player in the regular season entire 1970s, he wasn’t necessarily the same player in the playoffs in the weakest era of all time.

Mind you the only reason why The Bucks lost to overrated Wilt Chamberlain in 72 was because Oscar was injured. Once Oscar got old and couldn’t carry anymore, Kareem got outplayed and lost in the playoffs.

The next year, #2 seed Bucks and Kareem get knocked out in the 1st round by the worst seed in the West in the Warriors. Kareem went from a 30ppg player in the reg season to a 23ppg player in the first round. Again, Oscar got too old to carry Kareem anymore.

Kareem was outscored and outrebounded by Dave Cowens in G7 of 74 Finals and was sent home. It’s worthy to note that Dave Cowens had his reg season #s go up from 19ppg to 22ppg in the finals

Kareem in the playoffs without Magic or Oscar Robertson is laughable. Once Oscar retired in 1974, Kareem didn’t even make the playoffs till 1977, yet was able to win MVP in a losing season. His playoff record without Oscar or Magic is 8-14 (in his prime)

From 76-79 he had HOFers like Gail Goodrich, Adrian Dantley, Jamal Wilkes, Michael Cooper, Norm Nixon yet he got outplayed in the playoffs by Bill Walton, and Dave Cowen.

1976- Kareem wins MVP with a losing record and misses the playoffs. Talk about tough competition for MVP
1977- Lakers have the best seed but proceeded to get swept by Bill Walton. 3rd Greatest Player of All-Time?

1978- Kareem is at helm of leading 3 other HOFers to the 5th seed and a they lose to the Sonics. Seriously?
1979-See 1978

Keep in mind that Kareem HAD help. In fact it is very reasonable to say Kareem has had the most help out of any superstar ever, while having played the worst competition amongst any superstar ever

Again, these were the PRIME years of the “3rd greatest player of all time.” 6 MVPs don’t sound so that great anymore, do they?

Still think Kareem is the “3rd greatest player ever”? Okay, he has only has TWO game winning plays in 10 Finals. That’s absolutely mind boggling, considering he’s supposed to be the greatest center of all time. Hakeem has 3 in 4 finals. Yikes

Enter Magic Johnson, who comes in to save Kareem’s legacy. How is it that Magic as a rookie, takes LA to a ring, yet Kareem with the same team in his prime consistently got knocked out the playoffs?

Kareem won MVP in 80, yet when Kareem got injured and sat G6 of the Finals, Magic filled in and put up better stats than Kareem did the entire series. Really? That was the league MVP? A guy who his team didn’t need to cap off a ring? Who got outperformed by a ROOKIE? GOAT Center.

Moses Malone outscored and outrebounded Kareem in the playoffs in 81 and the finals in 83. The Rockets had a 40-42 record with 0 all stars in 81. Lakers we’re defending champs with HOFers.

In the reg season of 81, Moses Malone avg’ed 27ppg, 15rpg. In the FIRST ROUND, 31ppg, 18rpg. Knocked the reigning MVP and defending champs out the playoffs.

Take that in for a second. THIS is the Greatest Center of All-Time? The third greatest player ever? When you take into account that Kareem never led his losing season teams to the finals, yet he loses to a center with a losing record, he doesn’t seem so great anymore.

In the reg season of 83, Moses avg’ed 25ppg,15rpg,1spg,2bpg(24.5ppg but I rounded up) The trend continues, as his #’s went up in The Finals against KAJ, avg’ing 26/18/2spg,2bpg(1.5 each but I rounded up)

Moses once again, beat the defending champs, this time SWEEPING the Showtime Lakers, giving credit to KAJ’s overrated defense. Where is this all-NBA defender when it matters the most?

In 1985, there’s a VERY good argument that Kareem didn’t even deserve FMVP. First off, we already see Kareem is nothing amazing without a HOF PG. Second off, Magic’s reason for MVP is his intangibles he brings all the time.

The Lakers hadn’t won a ring from 76-79 with Kareem, but enter Magic Johnson and they immediately end up going to 8 finals w/ Kareem. 9 in total w/ Magic. That alone shows Magic is the real MVP of that team, not Kareem.

Magic also averaged 14apg, the highest in Finals history. Only MJ has averaged over 11apg in a finals series before. Kareem really only won because of box score stats, despite getting outplayed by McHale in the series(not his match-up, but a big man nonetheless)

1986 playoffs, Hakeem held Kareem to 50%fg after he averaged 56% in the 86 season, when Hakeem was in his second year. Hakeem led HOU&Kareem in 4/5 stats. When has Kareem ever done this? I mean he’s the Greatest Center of All-Time, RIGHT?

Once again, the defending champs and FMVP get sent home to by a GOOD big man. Sure he was old, but he’s the Greatest Center of All-Time right?

Mind you Hakeems starting point guard, John Lucas II was kicked off the team for a cocaine addiction.

Another thing we should point out is that with Magic injured in 1989, the Lakers got swept in the Finals. Sure Kareem was old, but it goes to show that he’s NOT the Greatest Center of All-Time

As we can clearly see, basing Kareem’s greatness purely off his resumé is almost insulting to other NBA greats. Kareem really was a right place, at the right time player. He never actually displayed much greatness by himself.

And like I said in my Wilt thread, in order to be one of the greatest, you HAVE to influence your team to be great too, as you will always only be as strong as your weakest link.

Yes Kareem is a top 10 player of all time for sure. Is he the GOAT center? No. Is he the third Greatest of All-Time? No.

And I’ll reiterate it again like I did in my Wilt thread: We NEED to stop overvaluing box score stats without any or minimal context. Why isn’t Westbrook the GOAT PG? Why isn’t Luka the best player in the NBA rn? Because context ALWAYS is more important than stats.

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