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[Thread] Once it is proven that Allah is immutable i.e. not subject to change, some may object and say that Allah (swt) quite clearly changes.
For example, assume the universe began to exist. Prior to the creation of the universe, Allah is not 'the Creator of the universe'.
For example, assume the universe began to exist. Prior to the creation of the universe, Allah is not 'the Creator of the universe'.
Once the universe is created, Allah then becomes 'the Creator of the universe'
Isn't this clear cut proof that Allah changes? That He gains a new attribute? That when the universe was not created, Allah wasn't doing anything and then once He changed, the universe was created?
Isn't this clear cut proof that Allah changes? That He gains a new attribute? That when the universe was not created, Allah wasn't doing anything and then once He changed, the universe was created?
Another example:
Allah is going to punish people in Hellfire and reward people in Paradise. Is he doing that now? No. So when we all go to Hellfire or Paradise, doesn't that mean Allah changes and starts punishing and rewarding people then?
Allah is going to punish people in Hellfire and reward people in Paradise. Is he doing that now? No. So when we all go to Hellfire or Paradise, doesn't that mean Allah changes and starts punishing and rewarding people then?
There are several problems with these objections.
For one thing, they all assume Allah is temporal like us. They treat Allah's actions as if in one moment, He isn't doing the action, and then later in another moment, He then changes and does the action.
For one thing, they all assume Allah is temporal like us. They treat Allah's actions as if in one moment, He isn't doing the action, and then later in another moment, He then changes and does the action.
But remember, Allah is timeless.
He doesn't have 'moments', like how we do. This is understandably a very difficult concept to grasp, since whatever we experience is temporal. We can't really understand what it means for something to be timeless.
He doesn't have 'moments', like how we do. This is understandably a very difficult concept to grasp, since whatever we experience is temporal. We can't really understand what it means for something to be timeless.
So, how should attributes like 'being Creator of the universe' and 'punishing the people of Hellfire and rewarding people of Paradise' be understood?
Does Allah undergo intrinsic change? No. As proven from the argument of change, this is impossible.
Does Allah undergo intrinsic change? No. As proven from the argument of change, this is impossible.
Rather, we should understand these attributes (and all other attributes of actions) as extrinsic change i.e. change within the effects, not the cause. The potentiality is in the effects, not the cause.
Allah is the same prior to the universe beginning to exist, and after.
Allah is the same prior to the universe beginning to exist, and after.
Allah is the same prior to the people of Hellfire receiving punishment and after. Allah is the same prior to the people of Paradise receiving rewards and after.
Allah does not change at all. Rather, what changes are the effects that are produced.
Allah does not change at all. Rather, what changes are the effects that are produced.
Also, Allah doesn't gain a new intrinsic attribute. Recall, the attributes of action are attributes we label God due to the change in another. Attributes like 'being the Creator of the universe' is not something real in God, like how an attribute such as power is.
Rather, actions of action like 'being the Creator of the universe' only signify change in the effects i.e. the universe beginning to exist.
At this point, some may object by arguing that I'm saying there is a change in the effect while no change in the cause...
At this point, some may object by arguing that I'm saying there is a change in the effect while no change in the cause...
and that these attributes of actions are not real things in Allah......none of this makes any sense at all. In fact, what it seems like I'm doing is just rejecting that Allah is really a cause that is doing anything.
I think one example will clear all of this up.
Imagine a spider on a wall. Someone walks in and sees the spider. That person jumps and gets startled.
In this example, has the spider changed at all? No, the spider remains exactly the same before the person jumps and after.
Imagine a spider on a wall. Someone walks in and sees the spider. That person jumps and gets startled.
In this example, has the spider changed at all? No, the spider remains exactly the same before the person jumps and after.
However, we still see that the effects have changed.
Even though the spider did not change, it still caused the person to be startled.
Still, the attribute of 'causing the person to get startled' is not a real thing within the spider. It is something we label the spider due....
Even though the spider did not change, it still caused the person to be startled.
Still, the attribute of 'causing the person to get startled' is not a real thing within the spider. It is something we label the spider due....
to the change in another i.e the person getting startled.
Now we can see clearly in this example that even though the spider did not change, there was still change in the effect. And even though 'causing the person to get startled' is not something real in the spider...
Now we can see clearly in this example that even though the spider did not change, there was still change in the effect. And even though 'causing the person to get startled' is not something real in the spider...
the spider is still really the agent of causation which explains why the person got startled.
If this is all possible for a creature to do, then for the Creator—who has been proven to not be subject to any change—it is necessary that He causes change without Himself changing
If this is all possible for a creature to do, then for the Creator—who has been proven to not be subject to any change—it is necessary that He causes change without Himself changing
So, the attribute of 'being the Creator of the universe' signifies the effect of the universe beginning to exist. Remember, we are not denying that Allah really is the cause of this effect - we just deny that He changes.
The attribute of 'punishing the people of Hellfire' signifies nothing more than the people of Hellfire receiving punishment. The attribute of 'rewarding the people of Paradise' signifies nothing more than the people of Paradise receiving rewards.
Again, we are not denying that Allah really is the cause of these effects - we just deny that He changes when there is a change in the effect.
Allah really is the agent of causation which explains why all these effects occur, but He does not change at all.
Allah really is the agent of causation which explains why all these effects occur, but He does not change at all.
