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This right here is what I keep talking about.
What do you *really* lose if you just decide to never hit on a woman at a con? What of value is lost? A sweaty little fantasy? A cheap thrill? A glimpse of an imagined life?
And what is your fantasy costing others? https://twitter.com/BowTieWriter/status/1275870272822927363
What do you *really* lose if you just decide to never hit on a woman at a con? What of value is lost? A sweaty little fantasy? A cheap thrill? A glimpse of an imagined life?
And what is your fantasy costing others? https://twitter.com/BowTieWriter/status/1275870272822927363
The sheer level of "But for me it was Tuesday." in the stories coming out right now. Men who agree, when they review their conduct in their head, that sure, yeah, they can see how they have crossed lines but nothing made a particular impression because that's just what they do.
You know, I get this, and I want to be clear this is a QT because I don't want to fragment the conversation in my own thread, not because I'm dunking or strongly disagreeing.
But the thing is - most of the rest of us thread that needle *just fine*. https://twitter.com/loudpenitent/status/1275990286745788417
But the thing is - most of the rest of us thread that needle *just fine*. https://twitter.com/loudpenitent/status/1275990286745788417
I don't want to say that there's no abuse by women and I know in particular multiple women of color who have been manhandled and menaced by white women at conventions, but by and large?
Queer woman hook-up culture at conventions is worlds away from this "aggressive hit on" stuff
Queer woman hook-up culture at conventions is worlds away from this "aggressive hit on" stuff
I posed the question of if they should maybe stop going to conventions in previous threads and I am now prepared to answer it: yes, absolutely they should.
The only accountability Sam Sykes and Myke Cole are currently qualified to perform is sitting out. https://twitter.com/wheredoesowels/status/1275993638720413697
The only accountability Sam Sykes and Myke Cole are currently qualified to perform is sitting out. https://twitter.com/wheredoesowels/status/1275993638720413697
I don't trust them and while I stress that I am absolutely not in charge of them or publishing or cons, I will say that *if they trust themselves* in this moment when they're both admitting they don't really have a clue who all they've hurt and how... no one else can trust them.
I'm not in charge of anybody but myself, I do not have a magic cap that summons an army of winged minions, I don't lead a mob. I take care periodically to shake loose any kind of cult of personality that might accumulate upon me like moss.
This isn't an edict from Cancel Culture
This isn't an edict from Cancel Culture
Guys. Men. Everybody but straight guys especially. If you have sizable doubts about what's appropriate and where the line is, please just give up on the idea of hitting on women at cons or hooking up with them there.
Also if you have zero doubt.
Also if you have zero doubt.
"The world is more complicated than that" and sure it is, there are such a thing as polite, no-pressure inquiries, but are you prepared for the harm you'll do if you get it wrong? How do you make something like that right? Watch the guys flailing about trying to figure that out.
Some guys will take nod sagely and knowingly at the common advice to compliment a woman's taste and choice by highlighting her shoes instead of referring to her body and then say "I love the way you wear those stripper heels, you little tease."
All the nuanced advice in the world isn't going to "help" guys who don't think they're the problem, isn't going to stop guys who are looking for rules they can memorize and exploit, isn't going to do anything about guys trying to "get to a yes".
All these guys who are pledging that they will Be An Ally and will totally step up when their friends get out of line... you know, Dilbert Guy said that he wasn't worried that Trump would turn out to be Hitler because if it happened, then he, Dilbert Guy, would stop him.
And when he did this, I pointed out that the main effect of this pledge -- and he was quite solemn about it -- was it gave him a stronger motivation than any random person in the country to never notice if Trump trends in a Hitlerish direction. He's invested in it not happening.
A pledge to intervene when something goes really bad in front of you doesn't overcome the factors that prevent intervention in the first place. If you're not practicing and ideally training in intervention, it can actually heighten your reluctance to get involved.
Where are the guys who are flat-out promising, pledging, swearing that they won't
1. Hit on women at cons and industry events
2. Jokingly hit on women at cons and industry events
3. Joke about hitting on women at cons and industry events
4. Talk to their bros about women @ etc
1. Hit on women at cons and industry events
2. Jokingly hit on women at cons and industry events
3. Joke about hitting on women at cons and industry events
4. Talk to their bros about women @ etc
And by the way, for purpose of point 3, jokingly pointing out how you're not hitting on a woman is joking about hitting on her.
If this thread "does the numbers" then I'll get someone, possibly a woman, showing up to point out that SOME WOMEN appreciate the compliment, SOME WOMEN go to convention bars hoping for a bit of fun.
Congratulations. Don't worry. I promise you, we'll never get all men to pledge.
Congratulations. Don't worry. I promise you, we'll never get all men to pledge.
Can we get 50% of convention going men to do this? 20%? 10%? Honestly, even just 10% of con-going men declaring that they are there for neither hanky nor panky would be a culture shift.
And I want to be very clear that this is not a magic solution nor a silver bullet nor does it get past the "comment on shoes" problem, because some of the men we're talking about? Some of them I am sure would have sworn there was already a ~*thing*~ between them and their object.
But if we can just get even a vocal minority of con going men... and while I would welcome it from any quarter, I don't particularly mean everyday congoers but the professionals, the invited guests, the people on panels with things to promote, the gatekeepers, the connected folk.
Just a vocal minority of them willing to say that for them personally conventions are a place of business and a place to make friends and connect professionally, not a place to pursue hookups and flirtations and so they are formally pledging not to do that stuff.
Do you know how many of my female friends I have found have been *physically picked up against their will* by a man at a convention? Not "picked up" in the colloquial sense. And no, not dragged behind bushes by a man in a mask. Just. A guy thought it would be "funny" I guess.
And at least in one case a woman was physically picked up and moved to another room where the door was shut, for purposes of a conversation she had not agreed to have with people she did not want to see. Not even pretending to be joking, just overwriting agency.
I don't want to be the Fun Police. But the thing is, the thing I am "policing" (if you can call "maybe don't do the thing" policing) here isn't fun, it's risk. And it's primarily risk to other people, not to you.
I mean, I keep hearing about these guys who don't know where the line is. And maybe you don't know what you don't know, but if you know there's a line you can't see in a room and you know if you cross it, you will do something horrible to someone... why would you be in the room?
And if you had to be in the room, why would you be roaming all over it care-free and at will?
If you have so many problems behaving in an appropriate manner that you're just reeling trying to figure out who all you've hurt over the years then I honestly don't know why you'd go back to a convention at all, if you're trying to do better. I don't understand.
And honestly the world would be a better place if more men just STOPPED. Treating. Conventions. And. Industry. Events. As. Meat. Markets.
What happens if you just stop with the idea of anything romantic or sexual coming out of an industry convention? Does the sun go dark? Do the planets stop spinning in the sky? Do the oceans dry up? Does the moon fall out of its orbit?
