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Slate Star Codex had this post along time ago that explains why the center-left seems to hate, say, Margaret Thatcher or Milton Friedman, more than Osama Bin Laden.
Or the same thing for the center-right hating AOC or Chomsky more than Alex Jones.
https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything-except-the-outgroup/
Why?
Or the same thing for the center-right hating AOC or Chomsky more than Alex Jones.
https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything-except-the-outgroup/
Why?
Or why, for Ezra Klein, Sam Harris is more problematic than Antifa, or, for Sam, why Ezra is more problematic than Ben Shapiro
All of the above names aren't perfect examples, so if they don’t resonate, insert your own better examples and perhaps the analogy will make more sense
All of the above names aren't perfect examples, so if they don’t resonate, insert your own better examples and perhaps the analogy will make more sense
If you ask them they might say something like:
“Those who know better should do better.
"Everyone knows it’s obvious that X fundamentalism is dangerous, they get all the flak — but what’s more insidious is how bad Y people are and ppl don’t realize it.”
“Those who know better should do better.
"Everyone knows it’s obvious that X fundamentalism is dangerous, they get all the flak — but what’s more insidious is how bad Y people are and ppl don’t realize it.”
What causes these hatreds?
Proximity + small differences
But also—a threat
Shapiro is not a threat to Sam. He’d befriend Sam or leaev him alone. But Ezra could threaten Sam
Antifa is not a threat to Ezra. They’d befriend Ezra, or leave him alone. But Sam could threaten Ezra
Proximity + small differences
But also—a threat
Shapiro is not a threat to Sam. He’d befriend Sam or leaev him alone. But Ezra could threaten Sam
Antifa is not a threat to Ezra. They’d befriend Ezra, or leave him alone. But Sam could threaten Ezra
How are they threats?
They have the same audience (center progressives)
Put bluntly, Ezra could dismiss Sam as far right and Sam could dismiss Ezra as far left, and there’d be more credibility (& reach to same audience) than if Antifa or Shapiro made the same claims
They have the same audience (center progressives)
Put bluntly, Ezra could dismiss Sam as far right and Sam could dismiss Ezra as far left, and there’d be more credibility (& reach to same audience) than if Antifa or Shapiro made the same claims
Furthermore, Shapiro is an enemy of Ezra’s tribe, and Antifa is an enemy of Sam’s tribe, plain and simple.
Sometimes, the enemy of your enemy can become your explicit friend, other times the support is more covert (by, say, strategically ignoring).
Sometimes, the enemy of your enemy can become your explicit friend, other times the support is more covert (by, say, strategically ignoring).
This is why some centrists who hated Trump in 2016 become more sympathetic in 2019: they—believe they— share the same threat, even if they hate him.
This is why some centrists gravitate to AOC's extreme positions: they—believe they—share the same threat, even if they disagree.
This is why some centrists gravitate to AOC's extreme positions: they—believe they—share the same threat, even if they disagree.
The Blue Tribe's outgroup isn’t Al-Qaeda or Antifa or campus activists–-it’s the Red Tribe
The Red tribe's outgroup isn’t Russia or Trump or even the most extreme evangelical Christians — it’s the Blue Tribe
If you're in the center, you join the least tribe that keeps you safe
The Red tribe's outgroup isn’t Russia or Trump or even the most extreme evangelical Christians — it’s the Blue Tribe
If you're in the center, you join the least tribe that keeps you safe
“Imagine hearing a liberal talk show host was so enraged by ISIS that he’d posted a video in which he shouts at them for ten minutes, cursing the “fanatical terrorists” and calling them “utter savages” w “savage values”.
If I heard that, I’d be surprised. It doesn’t fit my model
If I heard that, I’d be surprised. It doesn’t fit my model
“But the story I’m actually referring to is liberal talk show host Russell Brand making that same rant against Fox News for supporting war against the Islamic State, adding at the end that “Fox is worse than ISIS.”"
"That fits my model perfectly.
You wouldn’t celebrate Osama’s death, only Thatcher’s.
And you wouldn’t call ISIS savages, only Fox News.
Fox is the outgroup, ISIS is just some random people off in a desert.
You hate the outgroup, you don’t hate random desert people.”
You wouldn’t celebrate Osama’s death, only Thatcher’s.
And you wouldn’t call ISIS savages, only Fox News.
Fox is the outgroup, ISIS is just some random people off in a desert.
You hate the outgroup, you don’t hate random desert people.”
“Furthermore:
Not only does Brand not feel like hating ISIS, his incentive is not to: The Red Tribe is known to hate ISIS
Hating ISIS would signal Red Tribe membership, would be the equivalent of going into Crips territory with a big Bloods gang sign tattooed on your shoulder.”
Not only does Brand not feel like hating ISIS, his incentive is not to: The Red Tribe is known to hate ISIS
Hating ISIS would signal Red Tribe membership, would be the equivalent of going into Crips territory with a big Bloods gang sign tattooed on your shoulder.”
“Outgroups are rarely “the group most different from you”, and in fact far more likely to be groups very similar to you sharing almost all your characteristics and living in the same area.”
Spending your entire life insulting the other tribe is a bad look, so they encode it.
Spending your entire life insulting the other tribe is a bad look, so they encode it.
Left encodes it by saying "America" instead of "Red Tribe".
That way it’s humble self-criticism.
They are so interested in justice that they are willing to critique their own beloved side, much as it pains them to do so.
Right does the same thing (blaming media, academia)
That way it’s humble self-criticism.
They are so interested in justice that they are willing to critique their own beloved side, much as it pains them to do so.
Right does the same thing (blaming media, academia)
One thing should be obvious by now, this isn’t about beliefs.
It’s about tribes.
It’s about winning and losing and alliances w/ enemies.
Our politics and debates are performances, not earnest inquiry.
Truth doesn't matter in tribal warfare. https://twitter.com/eriktorenberg/status/1203735266780831745?s=20
It’s about tribes.
It’s about winning and losing and alliances w/ enemies.
Our politics and debates are performances, not earnest inquiry.
Truth doesn't matter in tribal warfare. https://twitter.com/eriktorenberg/status/1203735266780831745?s=20
Both sides have rallying cries:
“Intolerant of intolerance”
“Cancel cancel culture”
Both oxymorons & linguistic contradictions
What they’re ultimately about is safety — ppl don’t want to be discriminated against. Ppl don’t want to be purged from society without due process
“Intolerant of intolerance”
“Cancel cancel culture”
Both oxymorons & linguistic contradictions
What they’re ultimately about is safety — ppl don’t want to be discriminated against. Ppl don’t want to be purged from society without due process
One problem: In our quest for belonging, we keep expanding our in-groups and, consequently, our outgroups
We're increasing dividing instead of uniting--and maybe this would work if we had a common enemy--and our lack of one is turning us inwards https://twitter.com/Dude_Br0/status/943534127684386816?s=20
We're increasing dividing instead of uniting--and maybe this would work if we had a common enemy--and our lack of one is turning us inwards https://twitter.com/Dude_Br0/status/943534127684386816?s=20
Nothing binds like a common enemy
"I, against my brothers. I and my brothers against my cousins. I and my brothers and my cousins against the world."
TBD who it is.
Ideally it could be an abstraction (e.g. climate change) but our wars on nouns (terror, drugs) aren't promising
"I, against my brothers. I and my brothers against my cousins. I and my brothers and my cousins against the world."
TBD who it is.
Ideally it could be an abstraction (e.g. climate change) but our wars on nouns (terror, drugs) aren't promising
Another solution is up-leveling our cultural software to be able to unite effectively
e.g. https://twitter.com/eriktorenberg/status/1122267311753191424
Fellow believers in mistake theory -- the theory stating that people mostly align on values, just diverge in tactics -- may agree to focus on our shared humanity.
e.g. https://twitter.com/eriktorenberg/status/1122267311753191424
Fellow believers in mistake theory -- the theory stating that people mostly align on values, just diverge in tactics -- may agree to focus on our shared humanity.
